Bouyancy in an OW class.

[landlocked]

Several recent threads have dealt with the need to teach better bouyancy skills in the OW class. The shop that I work with feels that: 1) OW students are confussed enough at learning to breath underwater and that they shouldn't be exposed to refining your bouyancy through breathing until later and 2) that bouyancy is not something that you can teach but that it has to be learned through experience.

The question then is: HOW do you present bouyancy to OW students in order to infuse them with greater skills? I know that Mike has stated that his students don't spread havoc on the bottom of the spring. So how do you get a brand new diver to that point?

The next question then is... do I dare take your responses to my instructor?

 

[King Kong Matt]

First of all, with all due respect to your instructor/shop, I think that is a very crappy position.

Buoyancy was stressed and stressed and then re-stressed over and over again in all the classes I have taken. It was always explained as a simple matter of physics...

You want to be relaxed and calm when you are diving...the more relaxed and calm, the more you are able to deal with the unexpected and more importantly...the more plain fun you have.

If you are always having to monkey with your buoyancy or are out of trim, you are going to be working more than you need to, or presenting a greater surface area (in the case of trim) that needs to be propelled through the water = greater work / exertion = heavier breathing / air consumption.

Just my point of view.

 

[MHK]

landlocked once bubbled...
Several recent threads have dealt with the need to teach better bouyancy skills in the OW class. The shop that I work with feels that: 1) OW students are confussed enough at learning to breath underwater and that they shouldn't be exposed to refining your bouyancy through breathing until later and 2) that bouyancy is not something that you can teach but that it has to be learned through experience.

The question then is: HOW do you present bouyancy to OW students in order to infuse them with greater skills? I know that Mike has stated that his students don't spread havoc on the bottom of the spring. So how do you get a brand new diver to that point?

The next question then is... do I dare take your responses to my instructor?

Landlocked,

Your concerns are all too common, and are a needless distraction from the learning experience. I get so frsutrated when I hear instructors say what your guy did, and sadly it happens all too often.

You are paying him to teach you how to dive, and a huge part of diving is buoyancy by ceeding the point that you can't learn it in OW he basically throws in the towel to make his job easier. Taking an OW class sin't about issuing you a c-card, it's about teaching you how to dive. I hate it when instructors abdicate their responsibility and suggest that you can't learn it so why bother teaching it. Obviously if they don't teach it, you can't learn it but given that we teach buoyancy from pool session number 1, and our students learn it I suggest that your instructor needs some remedial training..

This is an all too comon problem in scuba education, and is what has lead to a deterioration of scuba. There are many, many instructors out there in a wide variety of agencies that teach the skill, necessity and practice techniques in OW and it bugs the hell out of me when I see what happened to you. Part of the problem is that many stores view education as a loss leader, and as a way to get students into the store. By watering down your OW class, they can make it cheaper but they still get to sell you gear. Then on top of that they'll offer you a specialty bouyancy class and/or an Advanced class to learn what you should have been taught in OW..

The answer to your second question is you should take these responses to your instructor and you should ask him why th ehell he didn't teach you what you paid to learn..

Later

 

[Blue Space]

I feel your pain. I went out side of the LDS to look for instruction in a private instructor but as it turns out a bad move. He to didn't think bc was something he should be teaching in the OW class. I called him on it and he told me to take the AOW class. Not the answer I was looking for. I know I wont be doing any more training through him. Lesson learned.

Brandon

 

[Diver0001]

landlocked once bubbled...
Several recent threads have dealt with the need to teach better bouyancy skills in the OW class. The shop that I work with feels that: 1) OW students are confussed enough at learning to breath underwater and that they shouldn't be exposed to refining your bouyancy through breathing until later and 2) that bouyancy is not something that you can teach but that it has to be learned through experience.

The question then is: HOW do you present bouyancy to OW students in order to infuse them with greater skills? I know that Mike has stated that his students don't spread havoc on the bottom of the spring. So how do you get a brand new diver to that point?

The next question then is... do I dare take your responses to my instructor?

My view is that buoyancy skills should be of primary concern, even in an OWD class. I agree with your instructor that buoyancy needs to be felt to be learnt but that's exactly why you need to take the time for it. Claiming that it's too hard to learn is a cop out which has more to do with the available time than it does with the need to learn the skill. There are also some instructors who believe that new divers will eventually sort it out but that doesn't preclude (in my opinion) giving them a bit of a foundation to build on.

In presenting buoyancy skills you actually answered your own question. It needs to be felt. THat's what fin-pivots and hovering are about. Getting neutral under water isn't really the main problem for new divers. In my experience, the main problems are incorrect weighting and venting too late. On the subject of getting the weight right some instructors rush through it because it's too much work to organise proper buoyancy checks for everyone in their open watre gear. The instructor shows the students *how* it should be done but doesn't actually do it with them in all their OW gear, which to me is analogous to learning how to parallel park your car by demonstrating it with a toy model.....

On the subject of venting too late this is a simple skill to learn but is often overlooked during the open water dives because the student's don't usually get 1:1 supervision. This is also a question of experience but a little bit of focused attention gets big paybacks.

R..

 

[Big-t-2538]

Bouyancy in an BOW class...that's insane...I mean you are only supposed to be learning how to dive right?? What does your instructor consider diving?? Is he issuing a c-card for the ability to crash down on the bottom, walk around, and then use the BCD as a elevator to get back up? I sure hope he isn't, but the unfortunate case is that he might....

I don't blame you landlocked....the fact that your instructor is not teaching you a vital skill is a crock....convince him to teach you bouyancy, or does he not know how to control his either???

 

[MikeFerrara]

Well, I can explain the way I do it and why. First realize that I am usually teaching a PADI OW class and, per standards, certain skills must be introduced in a specific portion of the class. Also realize that it doesn’t always make sense. For instance, confined water dive one requires underwater swimming controlling both depth and direction. However, the student isn’t required to swim neutrally buoyant until CW session three. I’m not defending the way it’s written only describing some of the issues that I have no control over.

Many times I have explained why I am unable to separate the issues of buoyancy control and trim in my own mind. I’ve done it both ways (because I didn’t used to know any better) and it works better the way I do it now. Also, I may find a better way to do it in the future so don’t be surprised if I give a different description a year from now.

I start by thoroughly explaining the mechanics of buoyancy control and trim in the classroom. I show video of divers trimmed correctly and incorrectly. Part of this is explaining the problems caused by incorrect trim. For example, in addition to the extra drag is the fact that a head up diver must be negatively buoyant to move forward without swimming up and will therefore sink when they stop kicking. I haven’t yet had a student who was unable to understand the theory.

Obviously we start pool work in shallow water. When first practicing the basics such as clearing a reg or mask I don’t require students to be off the bottom, however, they never see my staff or me on the bottom. All skills are demonstrated neutral, off the bottom and horizontal (with the exception of the two skill where we are required to use the bottom). You might be surprised how many students start to emulate us from the beginning and make significant progress almost immediately. For those who have issues working with the standards I’ll point out that while the standards don’t allow you to require hovering at this stage they also don’t require you to stop a student from doing it either. Just to draw a picture of what is going on here let’s say the students are in a semi circle around me with a DM in front of them with me and maybe another one or two behind them and/or off to the side. I will demo a skill while horizontal and off the bottom then I will move forward to a student and have them perform it one or more times. I will then fin backward, turn and again move forward to face the next student. The point is they are seeing it the way I want them to see it from the start even if some are too busy to care at this point. Soon afterward we demo UW swimming. In addition to the flutter, which we are required to demo, students are also introduced to other kicks such as the frog and modified frog. They also see stops and turns.

Fast-forward to CW dive three when we must teach neutral swimming. We did weight checks in CW two BTW. We don’t just swim but we swim horizontal. We do it slowly with stops and turns. At this time we adjust weighting so that they can stay horizontal. We move tanks, weights and in general do whatever it takes. Obviously some attention must also be given to body position. Later, in CW four when they must hover we do it horizontally. More adjustment may be required especially since body position has usually improved by this time. It’s a reiterative process; you can’t learn good position unless you’re balanced but as your position improves your balance changes sometimes requiring minor adjustments.

I should also mention descents. The first descent in deep water is after we do a weight check and demonstrate neutral buoyancy at the surface. Instead of having students dump all their air and drop uncontrollably they are instructed to get neutral, exhale to become slightly negative and descend slowly and in control. It takes more practice than dropping like a rock but it prevents me from developing unneeded gray hair especially in OW. I mention this because of all the but first cannonball descents I see students and even certified divers doing.

In addition we spend some time practicing. We set up a buoyancy control course. We play a game where I spread coins all over the bottom and students collect them in their mask. The one who gets the most coins in their mask without touching the bottom wins. Another instructor who teaches for me just started a game where the students swim to a float. On the float is written a skill they need to perform. After performing the skill they move to another station. Of course all skills are performed off the bottom.

Fast-forward to OW dive one. In the PADI class dive one is just a tour to get acclimated to the new environment and any additional equipment. The students may be in a full wet suit for the first time so weighting will be different. After adjusting the amount of weight and taking an educated guess at where the weight is needed we descend to a platform (or equivalent). In buddy teams we hover and swim around the platform. If we need to surface to further adjust weighting we do it. We don’t leave the platform until we have things under control. In my early teaching days of teaching I led my share of OW tours in which students dropped to the bottom or headed for the surface anytime we stopped. I don’t ever intend to do that again but I still see classes like this on every OW weekend. If we don’t have a good handle on this stuff in the pool we’re not going to open water. Once in OW we don’t leave the platform (or whatever) until we again demonstrate that we are in control.

I haven’t described the whole class but some of the key points related to teaching buoyancy control.

should you take this response to your instructor? Yes, but they will probably look at you like you have two heads. LOL

 

[bwerb]

Ok, let's put the cards on the table.

I learned to dive in one of those $149 three day PADI classes (6 dives).

My instructor was phenomenal in that from the time we hit the water he modelled correct buoyancy and trim. "This is what you are supposed to look like in the water." Looking back he used the PADI course as a starting place and highlighted the skills which were not "part of the course" but important for real world situations. We dove over a coral reef and it was stressed that we were NEVER to touch the reef...again demonstration of how this is accomplished.

I came back to the Pacific Northwest to do AOW and was asked repeatedly "how many years have you been diving for? Your bouyancy and trim are outstanding; what do you mean you've never dove in cold water in a drysuit before, you're kidding right." I also realized that I don't silt up while finning across the bottom because I can tuck my head to my chest and see everyone behind me in clear water.

So...I would have to say that the whole "student" overload thing as a cop-out to teaching buoyancy is complete and utter crap. I was taught that there is only one right way, here it is.

Looking at some of the divers which are being produced by the mentality of "we can't give the student too much info" is a detriment to the sport.

My opinion...humble at that...is that a good instructor only demonstrates and only accepts perfect bouyancy and trim from the moment the students hit the water. I never knew that there was anything else. And, if my class of 8 warm water wusses could pick it up in three days of intensive learning, then there is no excuse for any of the classes out there which are weeks long to not produce even better divers.

Just a little fuel for the fire.

 

[mudguppy]

as a Dive-Con in training, I help out with occasional pool, etc.

The comment told me was that if I was caught telling a student to correct buoancy with breath or relaxing in an OW class, I was out.....that there was too many other things they were nervous about to be concerned with buoyancy.

I don't have alot of options on an LDS, so I go with the flow, but I feel there has got to be some better way to approach it.

MG

:tree:

 

[landlocked]

Thanks Mike, I was hoping that you would share.

Hi Mudguppy.

In defense of the instructor. She has a great gift with new divers who are scared of the water. In fact my dive buddy would probably not be diving if she had any other instructor. As far a bouyancy, the instructor really doesn't know any better. In all of the classes we have taken she has taught us the material as she was taught it. In the videos, the demonstrators drag gauges across the reef, the books and videos instruct us to ascend and decend on the line in a vertical manner. In the deep dive video it instructs us, after the decent, to kneel on the bottom and rest. I think that our instructor is simply a product of her agency. This summer she went to Mexico and did a cavern class. Her eyes were greatly opened. (Of course the upshot was that all this exact bouyancy stuff was way beyond our abilities and best left to her and the other teckies. She obviously hasn't watched mudguppy swim lately, or possibly she dosen't know what to watch for. Mudguppy did a little diving with Gideon in Singapore last summer.) Mudguppy, my buddy is currently working, with this shop, toward her assistant instructor and I have been considering doing it perhaps this summer. So, you can find the reason for the question in there somewhere.

By the way, most of our classes were free courtesy of my employer.

Thanks for everyones comments.