Breaking news from the whale wars

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

I added a couple questions pertaining to the SS incident as well as a plausible whaler response.

Steve, these comments only referred to mikemill's analogy and not the Whaler collision. :wink:

HOWEVER

Deadly Force in U.S. Law

In order for deadly force to be justified there must be an immediate, otherwise unavoidable threat of death or grave bodily harm to yourself or other innocents.

http://definitions.uslegal.com/u/use-of-deadly-force/
 
Where is the pub? After reading your crap I need a beer. And I post more than I dive cause I have a job..Do you know what that is? Sometimes I even have to work.. You hide your numbers so at least I am honest and up front. Why are you on here instead on being in the WATER if you live in Hawaii?
Yes I know I have a lot of thanks, I cant help that others find my post useful and informative :D
But what does any of that have to do with this thread :confused: Betcha you dont know yourself.

The profile dive question is for logged dives, I had over 100 unlogged dives before I went to Florida to become an instructor (9 logged). I logged ~205 dives in ~2 months of diving in Florida and after returning to Hawaii have worked as instructor/guide/photographer for the past 8.5 years. I have not logged a dive since leaving Florida, but do have over 2,000 underwater photo folders with different dates as folder names. Many of those days were multiple dive days and most training dives did not include a camera.

The options in the profile give us an option to be honest, or not. I am comfortable with my honesty, I really don't care what others think about my profile stats. Since before the Whaler ramming I have been on an extended Holiday family visit in the Rockies for the first time in 2 decades. Where I'm at there has been little fresh snow but the golf corse is still covered so I have nothing better to do for another week than plink away here on SB.

Like most of the posts you have probably been thanked for, this post has very little to do with the thread topic, and I fail to see that most of your posts in this thread, and those by most posers left in this thread, are anything more than fuel on the burning train wreck. This is a diversion for most of us it would seem, but the fact that my obvious enjoyment of the necessary role of opposition while not really pouring fuel on the burning train really seems to ignite the SS haters is pretty rewarding, so I'm not sure I can make myself quit.
 
Will this be tried in the US using US law?

Steve, these comments only referred to mikemill's analogy and not the Whaler collision. :wink:

HOWEVER

Deadly Force in U.S. Law

In order for deadly force to be justified there must be an immediate, otherwise unavoidable threat of death or grave bodily harm to yourself or other innocents.

Use of Deadly Force Law & Legal Definition
 
I wonder how much of the views have cultural ties? I mean, one group feels that a culmination of acts against the whalers would give them cause to respond in kind (and I tend to agree with this but not 100% as I feel that the acts of aggression were still continuing by the SS group against the whalers at the time of the incident, at least in the whaler’s minds). The other side thinks that an act has to be presently. proportionately and directly occurring before any action can take place (you tried to kill me last month, last week and yesterday but today I must again wait for the attack before responding-and again, I find myself in agreement to a point)

But I wonder how much of this opinion is based on local law and attitudes. I know here is Florida we have a very liberal ‘castle doctrine’ that basically states you do not have to prove that you felt threatened to use deadly force against an intruder in your own home or property-someone illegally attempting to enter is considered to be a threat to life. Likewise, if in a public place, you are not obligated to retreat before meeting force with force-if someone pulls a knife (unprovoked) and you can run but decide to pull a gun instead, you are justified…at least legally.
 
I will consider buying into the "guilty/innocent" BS once somebody tells me exactly where and who will be overseeing and trying the case and then post applicable laws that will be used to establish said guilt/innocence.

Until then, all we have is stupidity on both parts but moreso on the SS side IMO.
 
Will this be tried in the US using US law?

I don't know Steve; I suspect not. When deadly force can be used is the same here in Canada as that described. I point this out as a means of guiding the discussion. I'm seeing many people having an attitude that if they followed through with it in the country they live in, they would likely be convicted and find themselves in jail because of their behavior. Just saying...

What actually happens in this case is yet to be determined. I suspect that New Zealand would be the venue.
 
... if someone pulls a knife (unprovoked) and you can run but decide to pull a gun instead, you are justified…at least legally.

You have presented a well thought out and lucid viewpoint; thanks.
 
You have presented a well thought out and lucid viewpoint; thanks.

Well, I suspect that you and I agree on much more then we disagree on...and even those poitns that I find where we diverge, I still see your reasoning.
 
I agree that alot had to happen for this collision. There was at a minimum going to be a close quarters incident . Both parties are at fault for this. Previous video of AG cutting across the bow shows that they have played this game before on the same day.
If you could give a time stamp in the video (onboard the AG)where the whalers made the port starboard port turns. I would appreciate the insight!

Do you really think that there was no forward thrust?

Do you think forward thrust can happen from the water cannon?

Your just saying this for conversation, right?

See you topside! John

In an effort to stay on topic and continue a discussion; here it goes as I see it:

In the long video from the Ady Gil, between 18 and 28 seconds, we see in the rear distance a less than quartering view of the Whaler. The path of the Ady Gil does not seem to be moving to starboard, if anything it moves slightly port, so if the Whaler maintained that course we would next see the same or less of a quartering view.

But no, between 36 and 44 seconds the view of the Whaler is considerably more broadside, so since the Ady Gil has not moved starboard the only way that could happen is if the Whaler swung port from their original course.

At around 1:10, with no noticeable Ady Gil prior deviation from course the Ady Gil throttles down and is just coasting at idle for the duration until just before impact. At ~2:10 the sonic disruptor is heard and the crew turn on their now pretty at rest vessel to take pictures of the "close pass attack" evidently not worried that the Whaler Captain might not have the same respect for human life that they do.

At 2:20, notice how much of a quartering view there is of the Whaler and how motionless the Ady Gil is in the water. If the Whaler continues on that course it can't even hit the Ady Gil with it's water cannon. At about 2:35 there is big spray from the port bow of the Whaler and the quartering view is decreasing instead of increasing as it would have if there had been no starboard turn by the Whaler Captain.

At 2:47 when the video starts zooming in, I think under orders to get video of the acoustic weapon operator, the Ady Gil is still at rest. Granted they probably should have been more concerned with collision at that time, but I do not see how the at rest vessel has the legal onus to get out of the way of a vessel that obviously is aware of their position. It would have been smart to move at this time but they did not cause the ramming by not moving.

At 3:04 we again see the quartering view that should be increasing if course is held instead diminishing indicating more starboard turning by the Whaler Captain. The zoom is way "in" but see the apparent distance between the Whaler towers decrease; the turning starboard is obvious.

Now moving to the 3-way split screen video: At 1:24 the video camera guy on the Ady Gil seems to duck under the water cannon spray, that seems to hit the front of cockpit, where I assume the helm might be. I have not see the controls of the Ady Gil but typical throttle levers I have seen could easily be possibly pushed forward by a water cannon stream of water.

The view from the Bob Barker is such that I also feel it could have been the helmsman's view that the Whaler was turning so hard starboard that forward could mean escape, but then the Whaler turns back port. At 1:29 we see again a big spray from the Whalers port bow, again indicative of a starboard movement, then at 1:36 or so the big swing port as impact happens. Either the Whaler was adjusting for that attempted escape or he did not mean to be so close and did so thinking he would just miss, but if he had not made the series of course changes to facilitate the attack heading the collision would not have happened and the Ady Gil posed no threat at the time so the Whaler Captain is obviously the only aggressive criminal in the collision incident that constituted serious human endangerment possibly justifying attempted murder charges.

OK, searched some more. This one that was down for a while is back up;

Shocking New Video Of Ady Gil Disaster ecorazzi.com :: the latest in green gossip

And another with three way split screen of impact;

YouTube - Ady Gil Collision 3-way Split Screen
 
Anyone want to put their talents to use and sync all videos into real time in a split screen, instead of jumping back and forth between them and at different times?
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

Back
Top Bottom