browning hideaway fiasco

[aaen]

Do you have the numbers where the skiff went down? I'm based out of Nanaimo, and am willing to do a recovery dive to help you out. I'll see if I can wrangle up some buddies on the island that are capable of doing these depths to go try and recover some of the gear and help the group out.

Too bad I didn't read this a few days ago, I just had a group of tech divers in Courtenay diving the Scepter Squamish/Capliano/Gulfstream, we could have had a team right there the next day all capable of doing these depths to recover the gear.

My buddy has a boat here in Nanaimo that is trailerable, I have a few guys I know in Victoria as well just a matter to see if they have time to do the dives with their work schedules.

I'll send out an email to the techies here and see if we can out something together.

EDIT: Just saw you already had Pinged Liz, she is more then capable of putting together a good team to find this gear. I'll send her a note letting her know I am able to help out if she needs it.



Regards

Steve

I suffer from fat finger syndrome and a tiny keyboard on an iPhone. So I apologize for the typos and misspellings.

 

[Jennifer A Titus]

so three weeks after the incident i get an email for john:

he has offered up vouchers for a free trip which we can use or sell as we see fit. he is offering tanks for those of us who lost them. he is offering to get us into contact with people who will offer wholesale prices on gear. it is bits and pieces but it is better than nothing.

 

[KrisB]

The issue is that it looks like John is not insured for this and without insurance money in play no lawyer will touch this as I doubt John has enough extra cash to cover everybody's lunch, never mind their gear.

The best option is to look at getting the stuff back before it goes to crap in a few months.

He owns a boat, doesn't he? And maybe a car? And even some real estate property?

All are fair game for the judge to point out that he can provide the funds for the OP to be "made whole".

Furthermore, he charges about $1500 for 7 nights. If he has *any* business at all, he will have no problem meeting the $4k required.

The bottom line is that with small claims court, you don't need a lawyer (in fact, a lawyer may work against you in SCC, from what I've heard). Second, it's 4K that the OP is asking for. We're not talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars.

If her insurance DOES cover it, I suspect their lawyers will then be taking the operator to court to recover their costs.

 

[Jennifer A Titus]

i argued with DAN and they agreed to a settlement of 2000.00 on the 4,200.00 worth of gear. they will not cover items lost overboard while under your "care, control or custody". i argued with them that the items were not in my care .....but under the care of john at the hideaway. i feel fortunate to have this small amount to purchase required replacement gear. i have replaced 2900.00 so far....a very expensive non vacation.

---------- Post added June 7th, 2015 at 07:51 PM ----------

it would be really cool to recover the gear. i put liz in touch with john to see if he would be interested in starting up a recovery operation.
this would make many of us very happy.

 

[nadwidny]

He owns a boat, doesn't he? And maybe a car? And even some real estate property?

All are fair game for the judge to point out that he can provide the funds for the OP to be "made whole".

Furthermore, he charges about $1500 for 7 nights. If he has *any* business at all, he will have no problem meeting the $4k required.

It's clear you have no idea the costs involved in running a charter business, especially in a place as remote as Clam Cove.

The bottom line is that with small claims court, you don't need a lawyer (in fact, a lawyer may work against you in SCC, from what I've heard). Second, it's 4K that the OP is asking for. We're not talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars.

If her insurance DOES cover it, I suspect their lawyers will then be taking the operator to court to recover their costs.

We are talking about more than just the OP. She said someone else lost ~11K in gear. Actual amount lost is unknown since the OP hasn't expanded on any other losses but it is more than her $4k.

I've dealt with small claims. It's not as easy as it sounds, in fact it is a huge pain in the a$$ and involves significant time. Trying to do so from outside of Canada is pretty much impossible.

 

[Hawkwood]

...
I've dealt with small claims. It's not as easy as it sounds, in fact it is a huge pain in the a$$ and involves significant time. Trying to do so from outside of Canada is pretty much impossible.

Yup, our escapade was over $3,200. After a year from the start of the process we were successful, but it was not easy and very time consuming. My wife dealt with it all on behalf of my son. Otherwise he would have lost five days of work over the year instead of just one. It's not a cakewalk.

 

[KrisB]

One of the costs of a charter op is insurance. And if not insurance, covering the cost of a loss when a normally insurable loss is incurred.

SCC can be easy or it can be hard. Something like this should be straightforward.
Fact: The gear was in John's custody.
Fact: The gear was on a vessel provided by John.
Fact: Due to John's negligence in operating this vessel, the gear was lost.

I'd file a small claims court case for the balance that DAN isn't covering. Worst case scenario, you lost the court filing costs -- you can't be made to pay for the defence counsel in SCC.

We are only talking about the first claim -- if a subsequent claim from another party is filed, that's a different conversation, but regardless John's refusal to carry insurance could result in the loss of his business.

 

[Wookie]

We are only talking about the first claim -- if a subsequent claim from another party is filed, that's a different conversation, but regardless John's refusal to carry insurance could result in the loss of his business.

So... Would it be your intention to punish the operator and put him out of business?

Just asking. I agree that John is liable, but you seem to advocate taking it beyond what is achievable and turning it punitive. And maybe that's reasonable, if the op is negligent and should be put out of business.

 

[KrisB]

So... Would it be your intention to punish the operator and put him out of business?

Just asking. I agree that John is liable, but you seem to advocate taking it beyond what is achievable and turning it punitive. And maybe that's reasonable, if the op is negligent and should be put out of business.

I'm not advocating a punitive award like you see in the U.S. for "pain and suffering" -- just that those who suffered a monetary loss be made whole.

if the business has to be sold to a responsible operator in order for the negligent operator to have the funds to pay the wronged parties, then that's what should be done.

 

[Peter Guy]

Doing a small claims action might well cost as much as the loss given the logistics involved. Disclaimer -- I don't know BC law regarding venue or anything else and one of the real keys to this will be where a claim must be filed. IF it has to be filed in Port Hardy then just the process of getting from Ferndale, Washington to Port Hardy is expensive and time consuming. OTOH, if it can be filed in Burnaby or Vancouver -- a totally different story.

Yet, even assuming the OP could get a judgment, collecting is, again, another story.

Is there any general take away from this? Perhaps:

a. Know your trip provider -- any corners being cut?

b. Have your own trip/gear insurance?