Buying scuba gear to last

[Dante31]

Hi everyone,

I am a new diver that is looking into buying gear. I am looking for gear that I will be able to use for my cave diving certification and tech diving courses (trimix, wreck penetration and side-mount technique). I am currently racking up dives so I can take the above mentioned courses.

I have spent 3 weeks looking at different scuba gear specifications, and although I came up with a list of potential gear that fits what I am looking for, I still don't feel like I can say with absolute confidence that this gear is the best choice. There are so many different kinds of gear, plus the new versions coming out, that it is quite overwhelming to be able to decide on something.

Here is the list so far:

-Liquivision X1 Computer
-Atomic B2 Sealed Reg
-Atomic B2 Octo
-Diverite Transpac Harness
-Diverite Classic EXP Wings (duel bladder) or Nomad XT Wing (duel bladder)

Please comment on what you think about the listed gear + the cave diving (things you would change on this list?). I would like a gear set that I will use now and won't have to buy a whole new set when I get to cave and tech courses. I would rather add things on than have to switch things out, that makes more sense economically. What I am most not sure about on this list are the regulator and octo for use in cave diving.

 

[TSandM]

If you are a new diver, you need to buy gear that will work with a single tank. I doubt anybody is going to counsel you to go straight into sidemounted doubles from your OW certification. I would recommend picking up a standard backplate and single tank wing setup to begin with. You are going to spend a lot of money getting into cave and technical diving -- the cost of a Nomad or Armadillo setup will be lost in the noise.

 

[Stu S.]

Is that the $2,000 dive computer? Like other computers, today's "wonder item" is a relic soon enough. You could get a very capable computer like a Suunto that will become a less costly relic in a few years.

Have fun with it.

 

[Mike Boswell]

Hi Dante31,

Welcome to Scubaboard! Your post was so well-written that I hope you stick around and become a regular member.

Just a little note: When I read a post like yours I often go to the poster's Public Profile to get a better idea of who they are. Your profile is blank, so other posters have no idea what training you have had or whether you already own any gear or not.

 

[SangP]

If you are a new diver, you need to buy gear that will work with a single tank. I doubt anybody is going to counsel you to go straight into sidemounted doubles from your OW certification. I would recommend picking up a standard backplate and single tank wing setup to begin with. You are going to spend a lot of money getting into cave and technical diving -- the cost of a Nomad or Armadillo setup will be lost in the noise.

Although, I really like your choice of gear, I second TSandM recommendations.

I would strongly advice that you take your time getting to cave n tech. These are very intensive and advance training so I would advice a bit of deviation from your current gear choice.

1. Jets / Hollis rubber fins.
2. A good bottom timer like Uwatech 330m the liquidvision can wait till you do tech and trimix.
3. Regs, the atomics are some of the best performing around but they cost a lot to maintain, at least they are expensive here in Singapore and I won't recommend a octo. A tech setup is perfectly usable as rec gear so get 2 2nd stages and a good reliable 1st stage:
1. Apeks DS4/XTX50/XTX50 or FST/XTX50/XTX50
2. Scubapro Mk 17/G250V/G250V
3. Hog D1 Cold 1st stage/Hog 2nd stage/Hog 2nd stage
With a 5 or 7' long hose, 22" octo hose and 24" HP hose for the SPG
4. A transpac is a good setup that can be used for a lot of different dives but it doesn't cost much to get a bp/w that is better for bm doubles.
5. Wings, get a proper singles wing first, when you go doubles then get another. Something like the Oxycheq Mach V 30 will do very nicely & a Oxycheq Recon or Dive rite nomad if you do sidemount/doubles.

Call Edd at caveadventurers.com or Randy at Piranha Dive Manufacturing for some great advice.

SangP

 

[nolatom]

Even if your goal is caves, you may/should want to get a goodly number of open water dives under your weight belt before venturing into caves. A simple hockey-puck computer is fairly cheap and will work fine for that. And a wetsuit is a wetsuit, ditto booties, mask, and most basic regulators.

Go get, say 50 dives and your rescue and nitrox certs. Then think about getting cave training and mixed gas training if you're going deep.

That's when you can get the Star Wars computer and redundant reg systems for multi-tank diving. Most of the rest of your gear will be keepers.

Bear in mind this advice is from an OW no-deco diver who's only been in a few caverns, no caves.
But I think you should get the foundation first, and only then go on to ceiling-type diving, which is much more complex.

 

[Dante31]

First I want to address the issue of a new diver getting advanced gear. I looked into requirements for cave diving at the location that I am planning to take it, and they are: a minimum of 75 logged dives, Nitrox diver and advanced open water. Now for the cavern diving course (which I plan to start with) I only need 25 dives and advanced open water. At first I though similarly, that it will take me a while to get 75 dives, but then I looked into dive trips, I found that I can get 25 dives per week at a reasonable cost! The Nitrox dive course only takes 2 days! So with this in mind I felt that getting entry level gear was a waste of money. (**Correct me if I am wrong.**)

If you are a new diver, you need to buy gear that will work with a single tank. I doubt anybody is going to counsel you to go straight into sidemounted doubles from your OW certification. I would recommend picking up a standard backplate and single tank wing setup to begin with. You are going to spend a lot of money getting into cave and technical diving -- the cost of a Nomad or Armadillo setup will be lost in the noise.

You are scaring me there TSandM, I red 2 books on cave diving so far, the feeling I got was that the stuff I posted will get me into most places (plus lights, reels, knives... and small stuff). I haven't heard of Nomad or Armadillo set up, but if it is crucial to have and costs so much that this purchase is insignificant, it makes me feel like I dove in thinking it was 100' deep but ended up in the Mariana Trench.

I looked over harnesses and backplates and I only now understood what you and SangP said about it. I think I am going to go with Hollis Backplate and Hollis S38 Single Tank Wing instead of Diverite harness and a Classic EXP Wing. After I have a side-mount course down, I will think of getting Diverite harness then. There was some misunderstanding I had about Classic EXP Wing, I thought I could use it with a single tank.

Is that the $2,000 dive computer? Like other computers, today's "wonder item" is a relic soon enough. You could get a very capable computer like a Suunto that will become a less costly relic in a few years.

Have fun with it.

I looked into Suunto as first, but then I heard quite a few horror stories about it, so I figured why pay for a pain in the ass, better get something that will work for years to come.

Hi Dante31,

Welcome to Scubaboard! Your post was so well-written that I hope you stick around and become a regular member.

Just a little note: When I read a post like yours I often go to the poster's Public Profile to get a better idea of who they are. Your profile is blank, so other posters have no idea what training you have had or whether you already own any gear or not.

Thanks for the kind words Mike

I will try to update my profile as much as I can. At a first glance there were just too many things that were inapplicable to me that I didn't bother putting anything in.

I am a PADI OW at the moment, I will have my PADI AOW in a few days, and I don't own anything other than fins, mask, snorkel and a wetsuit.

3. Regs, the atomics are some of the best performing around but they cost a lot to maintain, at least they are expensive here in Singapore and I won't recommend a octo. A tech setup is perfectly usable as rec gear so get 2 2nd stages and a good reliable 1st stage:


SangP

Wouldn't two 2nd stages and one 1st stage be the same as one regulator and an octo? I thought an octo was a regulator without a 1st stage (otherwise the same not counting the bright color).

 

[ERP]

The important part about buying gear to last is understanding the sort of diving you will be doing, and more often than not that changes when you dive regularly.

I own an atomic B2, it's a fine piece of gear (though I usually dive my Apex reg), but there are a lot of other cheaper regulators that will last just as long and breath just as well. If I were starting again tomorrow I'd be tempted to look at the HOG regulators, they have good feedback from people and the price is hard to beat.

I'll second the why spend $2000 on a computer posts. I own three Suuntos, I use exclusively as bottom timers, I'd buy what you need now for the dives you are doing today. If you want to use a computer for recreational diving, buy a Nitrox dive computer at a reasonable price. If you're going the DIR route buy a UWatec bottom timer (if they still sell them).

The wings you're looking at IMO are way too large for a single tank setup. If you decide to get into tech diving later, trust me the cost of a new wing is minimal compared to the rest of the expenses.

 

[SangP]

My bad I assumed the B2 was a air2 or safe second, didn't realize it was a 2nd stage but I still stand strongly behind the apeks, scubapro & hog regs for simplicity, ease of maintainace, reliability and performance.

Back to the diving, I can't stress enough the fact that diving is like the tortoise & the hare. Try to get there too fast n you'll more likely get yourself hurt. Please take your time and get to where you're comfortable with. My personal goal is 55 fathoms or 100m which I know will take me the next 5-10 years or more to achieve if I even do it but I'm not rushing.

I'm not familiar with Hollis gear but the wing looks like my eclipse and I had a hell of a time when I first started using one. I much prefer my gf's oxycheq mach v 30 lbs wing, I just got a extreme version of it for myself. Trim is so much easier.

A bp is pretty much the same save for some minor spacing differences n I should know I had, hammerhead, oxycheq, halcyon, oms etc at one time or another.

Something reasonable like this, a simple harness with a 2" crotch strap, wing, & your're good to go for the next 50 - 100,000 dives. Btw, if you are serious bout cave and sm diving, I'll say get the extreme version of that wing too cus if you looked at the sm diving sites you don't need a big wing n some of them are using wings as small as a lumbar pillow. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQyU...04DD4931C&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=4 & spelunking isn't for the faint of heart.

Going sidemount or doubles if you do it eventually isn't that big a jump, a new harness or soft pack like the transpac or razor or even the zeagle express tech, with a good doubles wing like the nomad or recon n you'll good to go.

However, TAKE YOUR TIME, gear is the least of your concerns, most of the tech guys I know still have their back inflates or poodle jackets still LOL!

Bottom timer, simple clean hogarthian bp/w, solid, reliable regs n you're good for some rec to serious diving. It took me nearly 200 dives before I consider tech n the training wasn't fun. 3 tanks, rocky beach entry, task loading, dragging along a 50 lbs lift bag on the surface while having your mask n valves constantly removed or turned off...

Take your time n look at the pretty fishes & coral before the going to the dark side and I mean dark! 60m down n you'll need LIGHTS, BIG LIGHTS!

SangP

 

[Dante31]

I'd buy what you need now for the dives you are doing today.

I can't agree with this at all. You are saying that you would drop 2 grand for gear that you will use only for a few weeks, and then drop about 3-4 more grand for gear you need after?!

The important part about buying gear to last is understanding the sort of diving you will be doing, and more often than not that changes when you dive regularly.

I own an atomic B2, it's a fine piece of gear (though I usually dive my Apex reg), but there are a lot of other cheaper regulators that will last just as long and breath just as well. If I were starting again tomorrow I'd be tempted to look at the HOG regulators, they have good feedback from people and the price is hard to beat.

I'll second the why spend $2000 on a computer posts. I own three Suuntos, I use exclusively as bottom timers, I'd buy what you need now for the dives you are doing today. If you want to use a computer for recreational diving, buy a Nitrox dive computer at a reasonable price. If you're going the DIR route buy a UWatec bottom timer (if they still sell them).

The wings you're looking at IMO are way too large for a single tank setup. If you decide to get into tech diving later, trust me the cost of a new wing is minimal compared to the rest of the expenses.

I think you missed the actual question. I want gear for cave diving. I don't think it is a tall order to expect it to be usable for tech diving courses such as trimix and side-mount. I want to buy this gear now to save on rentals, while I am racking up dives to take the cave course. I can get all the requirement to start the cave diving course in under a month, so I see no point in buying gear that I will not be able to use for cave.

As for the dive computer, I chose X1 since it works with trimix and is said to be very reliable. Suunto computers that work with trimix cost about the same as X1 ($1300).

My bad I assumed the B2 was a air2 or safe second, didn't realize it was a 2nd stage but I still stand strongly behind the apeks, scubapro & hog regs for simplicity, ease of maintainace, reliability and performance.

Back to the diving, I can't stress enough the fact that diving is like the tortoise & the hare. Try to get there too fast n you'll more likely get yourself hurt. Please take your time and get to where you're comfortable with. My personal goal is 55 fathoms or 100m which I know will take me the next 5-10 years or more to achieve if I even do it but I'm not rushing.

I'm not familiar with Hollis gear but the wing looks like my eclipse and I had a hell of a time when I first started using one. I much prefer my gf's oxycheq mach v 30 lbs wing, I just got a extreme version of it for myself. Trim is so much easier.

A bp is pretty much the same save for some minor spacing differences n I should know I had, hammerhead, oxycheq, halcyon, oms etc at one time or another.

Something reasonable like this a simple harness with a 2" crotch strap, , & your're good to go for the next 50 - 100,000 dives. Btw, if you are serious bout cave and sm diving, I'll say get the extreme version of that wing too cus if you looked at the sm diving sites you don't need a big wing n some of them are using wings as small as a lumbar pillow. isn't for the faint of heart.

Going sidemount or doubles if you do it eventually isn't that big a jump, a new harness or soft pack like the transpac or razor or even the zeagle express tech, with a good doubles wing like the nomad or recon n you'll good to go.

However, TAKE YOUR TIME, gear is the least of your concerns, most of the tech guys I know still have their back inflates or poodle jackets still LOL!

Bottom timer, simple clean hogarthian bp/w, solid, reliable regs n you're good for some rec to serious diving. It took me nearly 200 dives before I consider tech n the training wasn't fun. 3 tanks, rocky beach entry, task loading, dragging along a 50 lbs lift bag on the surface while having your mask n valves constantly removed or turned off...

Take your time n look at the pretty fishes & coral before the going to the dark side and I mean dark! 60m down n you'll need LIGHTS, BIG LIGHTS!

SangP

Well, here I have no good retort. Taking your time as far as diving goes is truly wise. But do you think it is ok to at least take the course to see what it is all about? I still want to find gear that I can use and not worry that it will be obsolete tomorrow. I got some very good advice at this point so I am starting to see better the kind of gear I should get. I still feel that putting in a little extra to last me into tech diving is worth it, though I will not be going as crazy with it. The gear you posted looks good, I will look it over is detail.