Calling All Tech Divers!

[Lost Yooper]

Greetings all,

I was just wondering what you would expect out of a divemaster for a technical diving charter. I've been asked to do this next season, but I'm not exactly sure what the role would be. I know from experience that I sure don't like to be babysat when I'm on vacation, and I'm pretty sure other technically oriented divers don't either. I've come up with a few things like a deck hand and "tour guide" for the wrecks.

I've thought about ridding the "dive master" name all together (so not to insult anyone, of course ) and perhaps be referred to as the support/safety diver. Maybe I would sling an extra bottom mix bottle and a 50/50 or O2 bottle to allow for any problems that might occur.

Another problem I have thought about is there are some guys who might want to do extrodinary bottom times that I'm not too interested in doing. I would think that it would be acceptable to leave the bottom when my buddy and myself were ready, and then just wait for them at the deco depths. Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Mike

 

[roakey]

LY,

I think you have only one of two choices. If this is a trip with specific objectives that requires a team effort, then you’re the “Team Leader” and everyone does *exactly* what you tell them to do for *exactly* the time you tell them to at *exactly* the depth they’re to do it. If folks aren’t willing to do this, they don’t get on board, and if they deviate from the plan, then they don’t get back in the water for the rest of the trip.

But it doesn’t sound like it’s that kind of trip, so onto option two:

Make your official title “Guy who chartered the boat.”

If you have a boat of technical divers, they should be able to come up with their own plans and profiles. This isn’t a recreational trip so don’t handhold *at all*. Make it clear that you’re available if folks want to ask for advice, but DO NOT label yourself a “safety diver” or a “support diver.” In your example if you’re climbing out of the water while other teams remain below, you’re serving neither function.

If folks need handholding, then this should be a training trip led by an instructor.

In other words, given the typical three options of “Lead, follow or get out of the way” I’d simply get out of the way and let folks take care of themselves.

Any appearance of required oversight on your part will make you liable if the poo hits the fan as well as probably tick off some experienced divers (the latter being the lesser concern).

Are you mixing on the boat? It certainly simplifies things if you’re not, because then as folks get on you check for diving certification (like their OW card) and get a waiver signed that includes the statement that everyone must restrict their diving to their level of certification. Then if you have some yahoo who spent money on an He cascade instead of $8,000 on incremental Trimix classes to make some instructor rich, you don’t have to worry about it (jus’ pok’n fun ). This way folks can do mix without you getting in the way and if something happens, well, they agreed to not dive above their certification and it’s their fault.

Just my thoughts.

Roak

Ps. You call this a basic discussion?

 

[Lost Yooper]

Thanks, Roakey. No, I sure don't call this a basic discussion at all, but I was't really sure where to post it -- maybe under travel, I guess. I wouldn't mind seeing a tech section on this board for these type of things.

I really appreciate your thoughts. Just to clairfy what would be going on a bit better, I would be working for the charter company who basically wants to ensure (or reduce the risk) that divers don't "keel over" while diving off their boat, make the dive more relaxing, and of course to ensure they have a great time. I believe the owners would want the divers to do as they wish, but have someone down there to hopefully "bail" them out in case of a mishap. Some groups may want a tour guide, others may want to do their own thing. This is my take on the situation. As a diver, I don't think I would mind having someone down for this purpose if I were on vacation.

I don't know anything about the liability stuff other than the owners make the divers sign their lives away before entering the water. Unfortunately, in today's age that may not hold up in court. Do you think I could put together my own liability form for all to sign, or would the owners form cover me since I would be an employee? I haven't looked into the PADI insurance stuff yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't cover these type of dives.

Finally, the divers would be responsible for their own fills, deco profiles, equipment, etc. There is no fill station on any of the boats, but surface supplied O2 may be possible someday.

I kind of thought this was going to be a tricky situation and is why I asked.

Thanks Roakey,

Mike

 

[roakey]

To quote laugh-in, Verrrrrrrrrrrrry interesting….

If you’re working as an employee of the Charter Company (let’s call them the CC), you should be covered under their insurance. If you’re being hired as a contractor or somesuch, get a lawyer that understands liability and knows at least a little bit about SCUBA diving NOW to make sure you’re covered.

Note: I am not a lawyer and I don’t play one on TV.

In any case signing some statement about not diving above their level of training would be prudent.

My guess is that if there’s ANY implication that you’re a “safety diver” you won’t be getting in the water at all unless there’s an emergency, because doing otherwise may make it impossible to do the job that you’re “signed up” for.

Rule #1 of any emergency is not to make another victim.

If you’ve finished your dive and are about to start up and there’s an emergency on the bottom, perhaps even deeper that you planned to go, what’s your decompression? Sitting on the boat, suited up with a deepest possible depth depth bounce dive schedule in hand is about all you’ll be able to do.

Any kind of official oversight on your part appears to open up a whole can of worms.

Sounds like the CC is used to bringing out recreational divers, and they’re trying to break into the technical business. You can’t bring a recreational mindset into technical diving; it simply doesn’t work.

I’d make the argument to the CC that recreational rules don’t work for technical diving. For true recreational divers you can usually do a bottom rescue and not incur a ceiling. For all intents and purposes in technical diving you will always incur a ceiling. This changes the rules of the game. If the CC wants a safety diver, then they have to dictate profiles, and have you lead the dive. Any deviating from those profiles means an immediate rescue situation. The only other option is, as I mentioned, for you to be sitting on the surface which means reacting to a problem with a response time measured in minutes. If you’re lucky.

And lastly, if the CC dictates the profile, the deco stops and everything else and someone gets a so-called “undeserved” hit (PFO for example) the CC will case to exist in a puff of settlement.

The CC *will* require a PFO test before going on their charter, won’t they? Exclude non-smokers (CO2 retainers?) Fat folks? The list could go on…

Me, the most I’d stick my neck out would be consultant FOR THE CREW AND CAPTAIN. If you saw something unsafe, talk to the captain. Any kind of oversight on your part opens you up to a whole host of legal problems.

The sickening part of all this is that you obviously could make a contribution to safety but the lawyers have made it so you have to be less safe in order to protect your butt.

Roak

 

[roakey]

LY,

If you haven't figured it out already, I don’t think anyone in the crew should have any official oversight in technical diving for liability reasons. This is why most of the technical boats claim to be simply a “taxi.” They get you to andf from the site, otherwise you’re on your own.

They may want to know your schedule just to have a time when you’ll surface so if you don’t, they can start a recovery effort and/or call the Coast Guard.

This is why folks are starting to try and setup DIR boats. [In theory] on those charters there’d be a team approach with dictated parameters and everyone would be watching out for everyone else. But for divers that do not have a VERY strong sense of “team” such an approach would go over like a lead balloon.

Roak

 

[Lost Yooper]

Thanks Roakey. You've certainly added a bunch of stuff I hadn't thought about -- which is what I had hoped for. I'm going to discuss this in much more detail with the owners, and regardless ofwhat ends up happening, make absolutely sure they'll take the hit and not me if any trouble were to arise.

Thanks again.

Mike

 

[roakey]

...by the way, when you get it all squared away, semd me mail about the boat and trips you've got going!

Roak

 

[Lost Yooper]

Absolutely! Are you in the Great Lakes region or just come up here once in while?

Mike

 

[WetDane]

You can send me some more info as well...

There is a lot of good data here - I tend to agree with most of it - the charters we go out on pretty much cater to technical groups and seem to run the boat in a self sufficient manner - there is a DM, but he does not get into what we are doing much - just makes notes on gas and times and make sure people have their gas on before getting in.
Since this is not exactly a cattle boat this approach seems to work very well, everybody is diving with their longtime buddies and people knwo what they are doing.
I would hate to have a DM who fusses about things wit a group like that - you would loose the group in no time.
You do have to sign a release when getting on the boat thoguh - but that is about it - I think it pretty much holds the owner and any and all staff free of resposibility for your actions. (wait - am I supposed to read that thing?)

Anyway - I would like to know more about your charter up there when you get everything arranged - maybe I'll get my buddy to hop over with me...

big T

 

[Lost Yooper]

Big T,

The charter company (Abyss Divers) already exists. They do both recreational and tech stuff. They generally service the upper Great Lakes (Straits of Mackinaw and Whitefish Bay), but will go anywhere for the right moola. I've been dealing with them for while now and they are an excellant outfit. These guys want to enhance their charter company by somehow giving the clients a better feeling of security -- I think.

Just about every year, we have a death up here off a tech charter, and I think they want to try to avoid that off their boat. Granted, I think there is many other things they can do to help this, but whatever I guess. These guys have been doing this for 10 years and have had no problems so far, but I guess they want more.

Does that DM you talked about actually get into the water? If so, what is his role? I agree with you that a babysitter (someone telling me how deep to go, how long to stay, etc) is the last thing I would want, as well as the owners (who are also tech divers) of this company. I believe the owners simply want someone down to make sure everyone gets up alive -- within reason. How to do this and not be seen as a babysitter is the trick. I haven't been on a tech charter with a dive master, so I don't really know how to go about doing it. Part of it must be to convince the clients this is the safest charter available.

Mike