Carnival 2010

[tedgarner]

Finally an person of logic. It is just one of those things that really gets under my skin. Have it on the right day or don't have it at all.
It is like celebrating the Cinco de mayo on the 3rd Or the 4th of july in may..............I don't get it.

 

[mstevens]

Ash Wednesday is a significant religious holiday, and Shrove Tuesday is a relatively small one.

Carnival most certainly is not a religious holiday at all. It's a secular celebration of a religious observance, with the emphasis on secular partying. There are no "correct dates" at all: it commonly starts from as early as Epiphany (January 6th) to as late as Septuagesima (the last Sunday before Lent) and usually ends either on Rose Monday or on Shrove Tuesday. I used to go to Fasching (German carnival) parades in January and early February, and in the area where I lived hardly anything happened on Shrove Tuesday.

Next year's dates are February 10th through 17th. The 17th is Ash Wednesday and Shrove Tuesday falls one day before that so the dates are extremely close to traditional and with the exception of a single day are in the pre-Lenten week. If you're religiously observant, nobody is going to force you to feast or drink, or even attend a parade, on Ash Wednesday (or on Shrove Tuesday, if you'd been planning on being shriven that day). If you're not observant, who cares when they have the parades since they're not a religious thing anyway.

 

[tedgarner]

Thanks for the correction. Still shouldn't Carnival end on Ash Wednesday so all the party attenders can repent?

 

[CZMDM]

Germany is mostly secular and I don't really know what German Carnival celebrates, but obviously is has nothing to to with Ash Wednesday.

"Carnival (Carnaval, Καρναβάλι (Carnavali), Carnevale, Carnestoltes, Carnaval, Karneval, Carnaval and Karnawał in Portuguese, Greek, Italian, Catalan, French, Dutch, German, Spanish and Polish languages) is a festive season which occurs immediately before Lent"

" Protestant areas usually do not have carnival celebrations or have modified traditions, such as the Danish Carnival or other Shrove Tuesday events"

Quotes from Wekipedia. Wekipedia..... I know, but in this case the description is IMHO accurate.

Mexico, Central America and South America most definitely base Carnival on the beginning of Lent. The entire idea of Carnival is one last blast before Lent begins. Cozumel always celebrates Carnival in accordance with Ash Wednesday, unless there is an election on that particular weekend. We move the dates here only when an election would limit the sale of alcohol on the Sunday on which the voting takes place. Therefore I think this obviously indicates that Carnival here is based on a Latin Catholic tradition. I think that is what Ted is getting at.

 

[tedgarner]

You got it Mike thanks for the back up. I don't really care what people do or don't do but I think a person should have some idea of why the party is going on and what it is all about.

 

[mstevens]

Thanks for the correction. Still shouldn't Carnival end on Ash Wednesday so all the party attenders can repent?

Probably. Of course, in this case it DOES end on Ash Wednesday so it's all good.

 

[mstevens]

Germany is mostly secular and I don't really know what German Carnival celebrates, but obviously is has nothing to to with Ash Wednesday.

I don't see what's "obvious," especially since that's flat wrong. Fasching in Germany is for exactly the same reasons as Carnival anywhere else: to get in a last celebration before the start of Lent. It's just that they start earlier and keep going longer than in many places. They're usually already repenting by Shrove Tuesday.

Therefore I think this obviously indicates that Carnival here is based on a Latin Catholic tradition. I think that is what Ted is getting at.

Sure. But it (Carnival) is not a religious celebration, holiday, or observance. It's a secular tradition no matter where it's held - that's what I'm getting at. The civil authorities aren't moving any holidays to fit around elections. They're just moving parades and parties.

 

[CZMDM]

Nobody is saying the party is a religious celebration. It is one that occurs prior to a religious event. Let me put it this way.....EVERY single year we have Carnival the week prior to Ash Wednesday, just like every other Latin American country, EXCEPT when there is an election, so obviously except during elections Carnival concludes the night before Ash Wed.. Carnival in Latin America is tied directly to Ash Wednesday. I really don't see why there is a problem accepting that FACT.

By the way if you don't think that Carnival is not a holiday....well have you ever been here for one? Because a week of partying, complete with multiple parades, school closings, governmental closings, etc. sure seems to indicate a holiday to me.

 

[mstevens]

By the way if you don't think that Carnival is not a holiday....well have you ever been here for one?

I don't think it's a religious holiday. I think it's a secular one and that therefore there's nothing wrong with the civil authorities moving it if they see fit. Yes, I have been on the island during Carnival.

 

[scubatree]

Like we celebrate Washington’s birthday on Feb. 22nd and Abraham Lincoln’s on Feb. 12th, it’s more convenient to have long weekends :blinking:

And the dates for carnival celebrations are not all connected to religious dates. Just a sampling:

Cozumel Carnival Feb 2010 Cozumel, Mexico
Santo Domingo Carnival Feb 2010 (various dates) Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic
La Vega Carnival Mar 2010 (various dates) La Vega, Dominican Republic
Jamaica Carnival Apr 2010 (annual) Liguanea Park, Kingston, Jamaica
St Thomas Carnival Apr - May 2010 (annual) St Thomas, US Virgin Islands
St Maarten/St Martin Carnival Apr - May 2010 (annual) St Maarten and St Martin, Netherlands Antilles
Vincy Mas Carnival Jun - Jul 2010 (annual) Kingstown, St Vincent and the Grenadines
St Lucia Carnival Jul 2010 (annual) Castries, St Lucia
Grenada Carnival Aug 2010 (annual) St George's, Grenada
Havana Carnival Aug 2010 (annual) El Malécon, Havana, Cuba

Link:
Event Search: Caribbean & Central America Carnival | Whatsonwhen