cavern diving question

[Jason B]

I've been down to Florida and did dives in the caverns at Ginnie, Blue Grotto, Devils Den, and King Spring. I was wondering what makes these caverns okay for open water divers but other caverns in the area require cavern cert? Don't worry, I have no plans of venturing into any un-authorized areas, just curious.
Thanks,
jason

 

[suthnbelle]

I've been down to Florida and did dives in the caverns at Ginnie, Blue Grotto, Devils Den, and King Spring. I was wondering what makes these caverns okay for open water divers but other caverns in the area require cavern cert? Don't worry, I have no plans of venturing into any un-authorized areas, just curious.
Thanks,
jason

I've been wondering the same thing. I'm sure these aren't as advanced as some of the others. I've done Devils Den and Kings Spring. We actually did our first day of checkout dives in Devils Den which I think some students didn't enjoy.

Mel

 

[Wendy]

I don't really agree with the 'open water safe' cavern. I don't think ow divers should be in King's Spring, and I'm sure if that guy that died there this year would agree with me now. I also witnessed the death of two ow divers that after diving in the Ballroom at Ginnie went to another spring in the area (not at Ginnie) and went into the cavern and cave. I assume they thought, well I did Ginnie with no problem, it was cool, let's see what this cavern looks like, I will just go in a little bit. Well they died. So I hope you can all see why I feel the way I do about 'ow diver safe' caverns.

But because Devil's Den, Blue Grotto, and Ginnie are private they can set whatever rules they want. Afterall its just money to them. But I feel it gives a false sense of safety to ow divers, that oh I dived there I can dive in any cavern. Just like the people that go down and do a guided cave dive with no training down in Mexico, and then they want to cave dive in Florida, but find they need the a cert. Who is to say these people aren't sneek diving sites.

 

[fgray1]

3 of the four are Private dive sites and the rules are determined by the owners. King spring is in the open area at Crystal river and no one controls who goes in.
Keep in mind it's common sense that stops your from going beyond your training.
People have died in these holes because of the lack of the skills and knowledge.
They do their best to make it safe for open water diver to go in but you do so at your own risk. As in all diving the decision to go beyond your ability is up to you. Scuba is self regulating. How deep you go how long you stay and the places you dive is up to you. But the price you pay may be a very high one. What you don't know can kill you in this sport.
Fred

 

[simbrooks]

Some other places in the state, thinking in particular of some of the state parks, have a no lights rule - the thought being that lack of light should discourage OW divers from venturing farther than the cavern (ie beyond the light) in a site run by the state. Other state parks are cavern/cave certs only. On the no lights rule - this doesnt mean you cant get in trouble diving in the light/cavern zone, but its a lower risk than out of the cavern zone in the cave zone. This seems to be working, some still sneak lights, i can hold my hand up and say that i did once on one of my first and only trust-me DM guided dives, which was in manatee springs, i wouldnt do that again! I know now a little more and certainly a lot better than i did on dive #6 of my career.

The commercial sites that offer "OW safe" caverns (Paradise, Ginnie, and Blue Grotto) give you a nice video intro to the dangers, the highlights and such of the cavern they run and tell you there is a guideline to follow out should things get hairy (stay close to it whilst diving so you can find it when needed), they also give you informal gas management of the thirds rule, they might even tell you to take two lights (cant recall exactly what the videos say on that) - this doesnt subsitute for formal training, but it gets you thinking a little and to an extent absolves them (along with the waiver) that they tried their best to warn you before you dove at your own risk.

However i would highly recommend doing a cavern course (with a good instructor) to help you refine and gain new skills, awareness of the kinds of dangers there are, and training to help you minimise these risks/dangers. There are many things you can pick up on this kind of course that can help you with your regular recreational diving as well. Its well worth the time, effort and minimal cost to do this kind of course even if you dont intend to dive overheads often (however remember to practice and refresh before going back into that kind of environment after a break) - we are blessed to have so many of them around here, that it would be a shame to miss this intrinsic part of underwater FL if you live here.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I've been down to Florida and did dives in the caverns at Ginnie, Blue Grotto, Devils Den, and King Spring. I was wondering what makes these caverns okay for open water divers but other caverns in the area require cavern cert? Don't worry, I have no plans of venturing into any un-authorized areas, just curious.
Thanks,
jason

Some are advertised as safe by the owners due to their desire to collect entry fees from you.

 

[Jason B]

The commercial sites that offer "OW safe" caverns (Paradise, Ginnie, and Blue Grotto) give you a nice video intro to the dangers, the highlights and such of the cavern they run and tell you there is a guideline to follow out should things get hairy (stay close to it whilst diving so you can find it when needed), they also give you informal gas management of the thirds rule, they might even tell you to take two lights (cant recall exactly what the videos say on that) -

not back in '89 they didn't show me a video and blue grotto was the only one with a line. As for gas management, they filled my tank and said "here ya go".

But because Devil's Den, Blue Grotto, and Ginnie are private they can set whatever rules they want. Afterall its just money to them.

Some are advertised as safe by the owners due to their desire to collect entry fees from you.

This is really sad. Back in 1989 I was taken on my first night dive in one of these caverns (not by an instructor but a "friend"). Looking back now, it kind of p!$$e$ me off that they allow such wreckless behavior by those who don't know any better.
Is Ginnie even a good place to get cavern certified or would I be better finding an instructor elsewhere?
Thanks everyone,
jason

 

[simbrooks]

Back in 89 i am sure a lot of things were different!! Nowadays in our litigeous society they are being a little pro-active regarding safety, but only to cover their own a$$, but they have all shot videos or give talks (in the case of Devils Den) to prep you. As for night dives, still in Ginnie's Ballroom you can dive til 12am, they have floodlights to shine on the entrance - but you cant see them inside - cave dive in essence.

As for places to learn, Ginnie has quite a few instructors and the high flow is one environment you will want to experience in your training, most likely they will take you to a low flow, high sediment system like Peacock (cavern cert minimum to get in - unless you are in training) up the road - its a typical combo. There are others, I am sure Wendy can point you to some good GUE instructors if you want to go the DIR route to cave. There are a few other shops around the cave country area that offer instruction, i went with an independent guy off SB - GDI, who i really like the teaching and diving manner of and he covers a lot of material that others dont at this level - he also wont take half-a$$ed efforts at getting the skills right! Your choice, there are other threads in this forum on cavern or intro to cave instructors, a few more options on there.

 

[Miller]

Hi
I dove Crystal River this past Summer. Is that Kings Springs that American Pro takes everybody? I know, it look like a cave to me. There was a cave diver with our group that though the same.

Safe diving

 

[Wendy]

Hi
I dove Crystal River this past Summer. Is that Kings Springs that American Pro takes everybody? I know, it look like a cave to me. There was a cave diver with our group that though the same.

Safe diving

There is only the one cavern I know of there. near the mantee statue. Parts of it I am sure go beyond the daylight zone and would be consider a cave and at night it is a cave.