Charters not accepting certain agencies?

[AustinV]

Ah, I didn't see that part about 50 minimum dives, might have been on separate page. The only part I saw was the bold text I copied and pasted above.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

although it's more often the instructor than the agency, at least at the recreational level.

This is where I have a real problem with the current diving/ teaching atmosphere. I’m really tired of hearing about “It’s the instructor not the agency” crap. AFAIK the instructor is a direct representative of the agency, therefore the instructor as the direct point of contact for the public, IS the agency.
If I was to take my car to a body shop and the shop had a good reputation, but hired a total hack to work on my vehicle and they F’d it all up, then at that point that technician directly represents the quality of that facility to the people who experience that individuals work. This type of thing will get them one hell of a bad review.
If it’s the instructors who are giving agencies bad names then they better get a handle on it quick like!

 

[Aviyes]

"Industry standards require a minimum course that includes: 12 hours academics, with an instructor in a classroom (not online), 12 hours pool training with an instructor, and 5 open water dives including 4 on Scuba and one skin dive."

Well looks like they won't take PADI by those standards, considering they do online academics, no skin dive, etc. Those must be some outdated standards.

 

[mmerriman]

I'd ask what industry standards they are referring to and then shove this in their face: http://wrstc.com/downloads/03 - Open Water Diver.pdf

 

[maj2]

"Industry standards require a minimum course that includes: 12 hours academics, with an instructor in a classroom (not online), 12 hours pool training with an instructor, and 5 open water dives including 4 on Scuba and one skin dive."

Correct me if I am wrong, but does this assertion from the charter's website also technically exclude most PADI certifications? Online training option, and isn't the skin dive optional? When I did my O/W circa 2001, my book mentioned an optional skin dive. My daughter's book (circa 2013) did not mention it at all...

Neither of did an open water skin dive as part of our certifications, so I guess I will (thankfully) not be able to use this charter...

I suspect that Wookie is right... There is likely a lot more to the story...

 

[mmerriman]

This is where I have a real problem with the current diving/ teaching atmosphere. I’m really tired of hearing about “It’s the instructor not the agency” crap. AFAIK the instructor is a direct representative of the agency, therefore the instructor as the direct point of contact for the public, IS the agency.
If I was to take my car to a body shop and the shop had a good reputation, but hired a total hack to work on my vehicle and they F’d it all up, then at that point that technician directly represents the quality of that facility to the people who experience that individuals work. This type of thing will get them one hell of a bad review.
If it’s the instructors who are giving agencies bad names then they better get a handle on it quick like!

Unfortunately, at least with PADI, that's not the case, and why students have to sign a non-agency disclosure statement:

Non-Agency Disclosure and Acknowledgment Agreement I understand and agree that PADI Members (“Members”), including ________________________________ and/or any individual PADI Instructors and Divemasters associated with the program in which I am participating, are licensed to use various PADI Trademarks and to conduct PADI training, but are not agents, employees or franchisees of PADI Americas, Inc, or its parent, subsidiary and affiliated corporations (“PADI”). I further understand that Member business activities are independent, and are neither owned nor operated by PADI, and that while PADI establishes the standards for PADI diver training programs, it is not responsible for, nor does it have the right to control, the operation of the Members’ business activities and the day-to-day conduct of PADI programs and supervision of divers by the Members or their associated staff. I further understand and agree on behalf of myself, my heirs and my estate that in the event of an injury or death during this activity, neither I nor my estate shall seek to hold PADI liable for the actions, inactions or negligence of ____________________________ and/or the instructors and divemasters associated with the activity. I HAVE FULLY INFORMED MYSELF AND MY HEIRS OF THE CONTENTS OF THIS NON-AGENCY DISCLOSURE AND ACKNOWLEDGMENT AGREEMENT BY READING IT BEFORE I SIGNED IT ON BEHALF OF MYSELF AND MY HEIRS. __________________________________________ ___________________________ Participant Signature Date (Day/Month/Year) __________________________________________ ___________________________ Signature of Parent or Guardian (where applicable) Date (Day/Month/Year) store/resort store/resort PRODUCT NO. 10334 Version 1.0 © PADI 2012

 

[Wookie]

This is where I have a real problem with the current diving/ teaching atmosphere. I’m really tired of hearing about “It’s the instructor not the agency” crap. AFAIK the instructor is a direct representative of the agency, therefore the instructor as the direct point of contact for the public, IS the agency.
If I was to take my car to a body shop and the shop had a good reputation, but hired a total hack to work on my vehicle and they F’d it all up, then at that point that technician directly represents the quality of that facility to the people who experience that individuals work. This type of thing will get them one hell of a bad review.
If it’s the instructors who are giving agencies bad names then they better get a handle on it quick like!

I'm not here to argue your point, and maybe @boulderjohn can expand on it, as I've only read what he's written, but I'm pretty sure PADI has expressly said that independent instructors are NOT representatives of the agency. EDIT- Mike Merriman beat me to it.

I think it's crap, just like I think dive boat captains are much more than taxi drivers, and the coast guard backs my opinion.

 

[mmerriman]

"Industry standards require a minimum course that includes: 12 hours academics, with an instructor in a classroom (not online), 12 hours pool training with an instructor, and 5 open water dives including 4 on Scuba and one skin dive."

Correct me if I am wrong, but does this assertion from the charter's website also technically exclude most PADI certifications? Online training option, and isn't the skin dive optional? When I did my O/W circa 2001, my book mentioned an optional skin dive. My daughter's book (circa 2013) did not mention it at all...

Neither of did an open water skin dive as part of our certifications, so I guess I will (thankfully) not be able to use this charter...

I suspect that Wookie is right... There is likely a lot more to the story...

yup - open water skin dive optional. elearning is more the norm than the exception.

 

[Nick Steele]

This is where I have a real problem with the current diving/ teaching atmosphere. I’m really tired of hearing about “It’s the instructor not the agency” crap. AFAIK the instructor is a direct representative of the agency

While I see where you are coming from I don’t totally agree with a good agency can’t have a few bad apples in it. I mean just look at number of instructors most agencies push out each year.

As for them make harder restrictions for SDI OW students that would make me never dive with them because I believe my SDI instruction was very well. My instructor even went above and beyond when confined water was rescheduled due to lightning and I couldn’t make it. Instead of tagging along with the next class she took time before her day job to make 2 dives with me to keep me on schedule.

As for the particular dive I understand setting limits as it is a deep and advanced dive for sure.

 

[boulderjohn]

I can see them not allowing SDA certifications, but I am puzzled by SDI. (SDA--Scuba Divers of America--is a well known scam agency. The last I checked, its address was a vacant lot in Arizona.)