Check dives, private DMs, and local/shop policies

[Lorenzoid]

I'm not knowledgeable or experienced enough to give an informed opinion about the pros and cons of new divers hiring a private DM. But while reading this thread, I was wondering: If after doing a checkout dive with an op they recommended that I hire a private DM, would I? I think that I probably wouldn't. I'd rather ask if there were sites suitable for my skill and experience level that I could restrict my diving to. And if there weren't, I'd rather just skip all the diving.

If a dive op is suggesting you hire a private DM, what they're probably implying is that dive sites suitable to your skill and experience (presumably very low in this hypothetical scenario) would not be very interesting or don't exist at all. This is your dive holiday--you traveled a long way to get here--and they want you to enjoy it. To travel to someplace known for spectacular diving and then be relegated to sites that most divers find sub-par (if such sites even exist) seems pointless. Of course, if one doesn't have the skill or experience, one probably shouldn't travel there in the first place. I guess that's what you meant by you'd "rather just skip all the diving." I suppose one could choose to take their dive holiday elsewhere--somewhere more suitable for rank beginners. But in your scenario of already having done a checkout dive, you've already traveled there. So you would travel to Cozumel and then not dive any more after the checkout dive? I know you're just saying what you yourself would do, but I can't imagine many people would do that.

I was a bit surprised when some friends of mine who had never been diving beyond their OW certification dives chose Cozumel as their next dive. But they hired a private DM and from what I understand did just fine, had a great time, and dived all the commonly dived sites.

 

[xyrandomyx]

If a dive op is suggesting you hire a private DM, what they're probably implying is that dive sites suitable to your skill and experience (presumably very low in this hypothetical scenario) would not be very interesting or don't exist at all. This is your dive holiday--you traveled a long way to get here--and they want you to enjoy it. To travel to someplace known for spectacular diving and then be relegated to sites that most divers find sub-par (if such sites even exist) seems pointless. Of course, if one doesn't have the skill or experience, one probably shouldn't travel there in the first place. I guess that's what you meant by you'd "rather just skip all the diving." I suppose one could choose to take their dive holiday elsewhere--somewhere more suitable for rank beginners. But in your scenario of already having done a checkout dive, you've already traveled there. So you would travel to Cozumel and then not dive any more after the checkout dive? I know you're just saying what you yourself would do, but I can't imagine many people would do that.

I was a bit surprised when some friends of mine who had never been diving beyond their OW certification dives chose Cozumel as their next dive. But they hired a private DM and from what I understand did just fine, had a great time, and dived all the commonly dived sites.

True. I'm sure that in places where there are good sites suitable for beginners, ops could instead insist on taking clients to those sites rather than insisting on them hiring a private DM. I did add a 'probably' to my post because, as you say, it'd take some self-restraint to sit dives out after travelling across the world at a considerable cost. Still, I'm certain I'd feel more comfortable improving my skills first rather than hiring someone to try plug the holes in them.

 

[halocline]

I have said several times on the Cozumel forum that I don't think Cozumel is an 'ideal' place for brand new divers in the way that Bonaire or Roatan might be. Most of the dives are relatively deep, there are some strong currents, there's a lot of boat traffic, and lots of other divers in close proximity. And on top of that, it's an environmentally sensitive area, and we've all seen abuses of that, mostly unintentional, by divers with poor skills. The idea of close supervision for new and/or novice divers under these conditions is perfectly sensible. The fact is that 'graduates' from OW exist at a wide range of abilities; some are really diving well and others are a disaster waiting to happen. The only way out of that situation is to make OW certification much more difficult to obtain, which means longer courses, more stringent training for teachers, more peer review, all the stuff that would make the hobby more expensive, more exclusive, and less attractive to so many people.

Regarding the policy of 'checkout dives' and dumpster's absurd insistence that it's a commie plot, I can say that anytime any Cozumel dive op wants to take me to Colombia shallows for a checkout dive , I'm ALL IN!!!

 

[DandyDon]

I must say, that as an Australian, I find all the talk of private DMs amazing. I do not know of a single person from here that has ever hired a DM to look after them. If you cannot look after yourself, then you should not be diving.

An interesting view, and I certainly appreciate your opinions. It may be that some of the newbies diving Cozumel really shouldn't, but impossible for me to tell which. Safer to just tell them all to hire one at first, and the ones who really didn't need the help will still learn - especially if it's the first time they've dived from a boat, much less in strong currents.

I was a bit surprised when some friends of mine who had never been diving beyond their OW certification dives chose Cozumel as their next dive. But they hired a private DM and from what I understand did just fine, had a great time, and dived all the commonly dived sites.

I don't see Coz as an idea newbie dive destination, but many think so - and OW Instructors seem to just stamp them good to go wherever. My first dive trip was to Key Largo and Molasses reef, love it, and felt fine in Roatan next. By the time I got to Coz, I wasn't bothered at all - which could also have been my poor understanding of my abilities but whatever.

I had a newbie with me on that trip tho and she was overwhelmed, and probably worthless had I needed buddy help. Hiring her a private DM helped her a lot, and probably would have saved my ass if I'd gotten into trouble.

 

[Mike]

I must say, that as an Australian, I find all the talk of private DMs amazing. I do not know of a single person from here that has ever hired a DM to look after them. If you cannot look after yourself, then you should not be diving.

PS I have done over 3,400 dives all over the world, from the tropics to the fjords of Norway.

You're in Australia, most of what you're referring to is being posted by people in America, keep that in mind. Possibly your training in better in Australia than what we get here, that wouldn't surprise me. With so many competing dive shops in the US, unfortunately many try to compete on lowest prices and that puts a pressure on dive shops to get divers in and out maybe too quickly.

But logic also dictates that I believe that any diver with 1000 dives could look back and admit that for dives 1-10 if they had to say would they have been better off with more exposure to a professional during those dives or worse off, they'd have to say more exposure would always have been better. Many, many scuba divers in the USA on their first open water dives if they do them at Cozumel are experiencing boat diving for the first time, drift diving for the first time, diving with a group for the first time, diving without a bottom under them for the first time, diving on a wall for the first time, deeper diving for the first time and even salt water for the first time. And all of that stuff all at once! Many, many USA divers get certified in a pool and a shallow lake or quarry in fresh water.

 

[xyrandomyx]

I have said several times on the Cozumel forum that I don't think Cozumel is an 'ideal' place for brand new divers in the way that Bonaire or Roatan might be. Most of the dives are relatively deep, there are some strong currents, there's a lot of boat traffic, and lots of other divers in close proximity. And on top of that, it's an environmentally sensitive area, and we've all seen abuses of that, mostly unintentional, by divers with poor skills. The idea of close supervision for new and/or novice divers under these conditions is perfectly sensible. The fact is that 'graduates' from OW exist at a wide range of abilities; some are really diving well and others are a disaster waiting to happen. The only way out of that situation is to make OW certification much more difficult to obtain, which means longer courses, more stringent training for teachers, more peer review, all the stuff that would make the hobby more expensive, more exclusive, and less attractive to so many people.

Regarding the policy of 'checkout dives' and dumpster's absurd insistence that it's a commie plot, I can say that anytime any Cozumel dive op wants to take me to Colombia shallows for a checkout dive , I'm ALL IN!!!

It seems to me that a private DM for a newbie with shaky skills would certainly be much better than no private DM. But it also seems to me that someone with sufficient skills and experience to not need a private DM would be even better. But, as I said in my first post, this is really just my personal feeling -- I don't have the knowledge or experience to back it up. I commented after noticing that clownfishsydney (who does have quite a good deal of knowledge and experience) seemed to feel similarly. I'd be quite curious to hear more opinions (in case I'm ever in the position where an op suggests I hire a private DM).

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I'm not knowledgeable or experienced enough to give an informed opinion about the pros and cons of new divers hiring a private DM. But while reading this thread, I was wondering: If after doing a checkout dive with an op they recommended that I hire a private DM, would I? I think that I probably wouldn't. I'd rather ask if there were sites suitable for my skill and experience level that I could restrict my diving to. And if there weren't, I'd rather just skip all the diving.

The problem I see in a lot of places ... including on my one trip to Cozumel ... is that a lot of people get taken to dive sites that are inappropriate for their experience level. A lot of it is due to the fact that people go to these places to experience "bucket list" dives ... like Devil's Throat ... and lack either the skill or self-confidence to deal with any less-than-ideal circumstance that may arise. Since most of the time people can go through a dive without experiencing a problem, there's a tendency to rationalize that it's alright. But on those rare occasions when something pushes the diver beyond their capacity to cope with it, the results can be ... and often are ... tragic.

But I can say that when I was in Cozumel, and doing some of the "bucket list" sites ... I saw people down there who, just looking at them, had no business being there.

And a DM ... private or otherwise ... can only do so much. You're supposed to be able to handle routine problems on a dive without assistance. If you can't ... or even if you're unsure of your ability to do so ... you shouldn't be doing that dive. This is one reason why I think checkout dives are a good idea ... because otherwise the dive guide has no real way of knowing whether or not you've got the chops to deal with conditions that you might have to deal with on a given dive. And to a trained eye, you can get a pretty good idea one way or the other simply by watching someone in the water on a less challenging dive.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[halocline]

I must say, that as an Australian, I find all the talk of private DMs amazing. I do not know of a single person from here that has ever hired a DM to look after them. If you cannot look after yourself, then you should not be diving.

PS I have done over 3,400 dives all over the world, from the tropics to the fjords of Norway.

G'day, mate!

Nice to know you aussies are all so, well 'aus-some' as to never hire a private DM. Over here, we stupid americans can't even take a dump without a private ass-wiper. Is that pretty much what you were saying?

All in good fun, no offense intended. I do agree that there are many un-qualified divers in the water and that the world would be a better place if OW classes were rigorous enough so that there was 'no-diver-left-behind' in a manner of speaking. But that's not exactly reality, is it, and I bet that even in australia, where men are men, you could find at least one newbie diver who couldn't handle Cozumel diving straight out of OW without, gag, a private DM.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

G'day, mate!

Nice to know you aussies are all so, well 'aus-some' as to never hire a private DM. Over here, we stupid americans can't even take a dump without a private ass-wiper. Is that pretty much what you were saying?

Depends on what part of America you're talking about. On the west coast, divemasters work on the boat and don't even get in the water with you. Nobody's gonna hold your hand or take care of you here ... so you'd better have the chops to deal with whatever comes your way during the dive. It's also a good idea to select your dive buddy wisely ... because the two of you are all you've got once you begin the dive.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[flots am]

I must say, that as an Australian, I find all the talk of private DMs amazing. I do not know of a single person from here that has ever hired a DM to look after them. If you cannot look after yourself, then you should not be diving.

It's a tropical-resort thing. I've never even seen a DM on a boat in the US or Canada, except maybe to hook the mooring or drop the anchor.

flots.