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Check dives, private DMs, and local/shop policies
- Thread starter Quero
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Yo tambien. I've been diving with the same outfit for many years on Cozumel and I still have to fill out their paperwork with my card info every time. If I didn't have my card, I guess I could claim to remember my card number and fill out the form without it, but I'd never put them in that position.
Every place I have ever been has required to see my card. Even the pool at the lds requires my card or no tanks or admittance and I know those folks very well.
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It could be my old, well worn T-shirts from dive trips. Before the first day, I take my pony in to be filled so that might set them off? In Roatan at the big meeting, the manager pretended to look at cards so I used my defective Padi card that has no certification info.
That's silly. My LDS has my C-records and processed my Rescue card so they never ask. Maybe yours is larger than mine...?
AED's should be in a basic emergency kit. In a cardiac situation 02 and CPR won't be enough in some circumstances. The time to shore usually is to long. They aren't that expensive around 2 grand for portable systems. I could have sworn they had them on the Cayman boats, but I may have just wished they had them. Not that this would have helped anyone in this situation. Cheers
Qnape
Contributor
An undertone to this conversation seems to be the perceived opposition between the concept of the primary personal responsibily of each diver for themselves and the use of a private divemaster in a location such as Cozumel. This is unfortunate, and may be part of the reason aside from pride or cost that many divers would decline a private DM even when advised to hire one. It has already been pointed out that new divers are trained to seek local expertise or even instruction when diving in conditions other than those in which they were certified. This is exactly what the utilization of a private divemaster is (or should be), from the point of view of divers seeking to expand their experience. It is not an abdication of personal responsibility, but an exercise of that responsibility to seek out guidance or instruction until you gain experience.
Of course I am not talking about someone with woefully inadequate skills who figures to hire a nanny to make up for failure to adequately train the basics. It should not be a dive op's responsibility to make up for poor training but reality apparently makes it so all too often. But for a new diver with decent to good initial training in freshwater far from the reef environment or any currents to seek guidance when expanding their experience to the ocean, using a private divemaster may be an excellent choice. Think of it this way - one can essentially get course level training at a bargain price! OK, no C-card, but why not learn how to dive where you want to dive from someone who really knows how? A motivated diver can learn a lot from a private DM, and of course the better trained in basic skills that diver is before he gets to the reef, the more he will learn about drift and reef diving from that DM and the better the dives will be. Given freedom from needing to babysit for inadequate basic skills, a private DM will freely teach you a LOT about diving in that new environment. Taking advantage of the availability of a private divemaster to learn in unfamilar condition does not automatically indicate that a diver is not taking responsibilty for themselves, but is often a way for that diver to increase their level of selfconfidence and ability. This can, perhaps, reduce the likeliness of incidents like this one.
Of course I am not talking about someone with woefully inadequate skills who figures to hire a nanny to make up for failure to adequately train the basics. It should not be a dive op's responsibility to make up for poor training but reality apparently makes it so all too often. But for a new diver with decent to good initial training in freshwater far from the reef environment or any currents to seek guidance when expanding their experience to the ocean, using a private divemaster may be an excellent choice. Think of it this way - one can essentially get course level training at a bargain price! OK, no C-card, but why not learn how to dive where you want to dive from someone who really knows how? A motivated diver can learn a lot from a private DM, and of course the better trained in basic skills that diver is before he gets to the reef, the more he will learn about drift and reef diving from that DM and the better the dives will be. Given freedom from needing to babysit for inadequate basic skills, a private DM will freely teach you a LOT about diving in that new environment. Taking advantage of the availability of a private divemaster to learn in unfamilar condition does not automatically indicate that a diver is not taking responsibilty for themselves, but is often a way for that diver to increase their level of selfconfidence and ability. This can, perhaps, reduce the likeliness of incidents like this one.
xyrandomyx
Contributor
Belize's Blue Hole is precisely the site I had in mind when I asked that question (after reading countless posts/ threads about it here).
Do new divers end up diving the Blue Hole because:
a) the diver insists that they want to go, even though the op knows they really shouldn't; or
b) the diver doesn't really mind where they dive and the op reassures them that it's all good
? 'a' is what I meant by actual demand (they're really going to lose customers if they don't take them). 'b' is what I meant by 'perceived' demand (the op thinks they'll lose customers, in reality the diver would still be quite happy if they didn't dive that site).
---------- Post added January 19th, 2013 at 09:33 PM ----------
Sorry. My question wasn't aimed at Cozumel operators in general or the particular Cozumel operator in the incident. I have no experience of either. I asked because of the speculation (unless some more solid info has come to light since yesterday, that's all it is) that the victim was a new/ inexperienced without a private DM on a dive that may have been somewhat 'out of her league'. Whether that was actually the case, I don't know, but it's a fairly common theme in the A&I forum. I was hoping to get some others' thoughts on how that sort of situation typically arises.
I have people all the time write for reservations requesting specific dive sites because they read about them in a guide book or on the internet - when the truth is, these are not even the best dives we have to offer - just like the Blue Hole - what a boring anticlimactic dive. I tell them all the same thing. I cannot guarantee you ANY specific dive site because dive sites are selected each day on the boat as a group with various considerations taken into account. Divers requests are of course taken into account, it is a democracy for the most part, but the DM and Captain have the final say for safety reasons - that is what they are paid to do - to take you on the most enjoyable and safe dives they can. Knowing that we have people that want to do some of the specific sites that are deemed "expert" or "highly advanced" helps us to plan for it however and assemble a group of divers not only that are qualified, but that WANT to do these sites. Many people who are qualified for these sites don't want to dive them because they have been there and done that and they don't want to waste NDL time on a dive like Devil's Throat for example. They would rather a nice long dive with more marine life and time in the water - not necessarily shallow, but a properly profiled dive where they can also use nitrox if appropriate.
Speaking from an operators point of view - we don't take people that are unqualified or that we have not verified personally with a few "regular" dives to sites like Devil's Throat, Barracuda, Maracaibo deep - PERIOD - not even with a private DM. If they need a private DM, then they sure don't need to be on these sites to begin with!
I am not afraid of losing business for not taking them to a site they beg to go to or one that we perceive they want to go to. Of course we handle it professionally and delicately - then they realize that their safety is most important, unless they are completely unreasonable and arrogant.
AS for the missing diver, the dive site she was diving was not an advanced dive per se. It is a standard site that is typically ok for all levels depending on how the DM profiled the dive that day. Palancar is a reef that can be dove as a wall dive with or without swim throughs or as a shallower dive by staying at the top of the reef or on the east side of the structures (west side is the wall). It can be a deep multi-level dive or a shallow dive with depths from 25 - 30 feet at the top of the reef literally to the Abyss on the wall side - there are also many shelves at various depths. I feel confident in saying that unless this was an advanced group of divers (which I doubt based on the statement from the Op's employee that she had done a refresher and was encouraged to hire a private DM) this dive was probably planned as a standard Palancar dive with a dive plan of 60 - 80 ft max with the standard tour of the reef.
AS far as one of your previous posts (or maybe it was someone else) abou the need for a private DM because the site was beyond their capabilities - no - if the dive is beyond their capabilities, we don't just put a private DM with them and send them to a site that we have already decided they are not qualified for. Likewise, if someone needs a private DM because their skills are subpar, they are nervous - etc. - they need the assistance on a benign shallow dive as well - they can actually do just as much harm in 30 feet of water as they can in 80 feet of water.
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