Cold water Wing lift - again

[Kwjybo]

Hi

I have heard and read a lot about the "right" wing lift choices (including using the calculator), and I've got so much conflicting advice that I thought I'd just ask what wing should I get. My choices are a 28 lb, 35lb, and 40 lb one.

Currently, I'm diving in a wetsuit (7mm two piece - 14 at core), with a BCD, 20 lb. weights, and steel 100 tanks (-12 lb full, -5 lb empty buoyancy)

I'm moving to a BP/W setup (getting weight off my waist), and I plan to go drysuit in a while (though I expect to dive wet in a BP/W for a few more months at least). I also plan on going the Tech route - just to give you an idea on my future scope.

My calculations show that (worst case): I jump in with a full tank, go to 120 feet immediately, and need to compensate for my (roughly 7lb air + 15 lb suit compression): a 22 lb wing should do.
The lift to float my gear without me (at the start of the dive) is 12lb (full tank)+ 6lb backplate + a little extra (4 lb) i.e. 22 pounds.

The lift calculator, on the other hand, tells me I need a 25 lb wing (and no weight!!).

A couple of people (much more experienced than me) have told me I'd need at least a 30, and maybe closer to 40 lb lift.

I am not sure which choice is right. I believe my 20# lead is accurate from weight testing (not sure why the calculator tells me I need no weight - does my jacket bcd give me 16 lb lift when empty?

So the question is (keeping in mind future changes like dry suit and tech plans): do I get a 28 lb wing, or a 35 lb one, or 40 lb one?

Thank you

 

[Dive Right In Scuba 2]

My simple math says that you need a 40b wing at a BARE Minimum. -20 of weight, -12 full cylinder, -8 to keep your head above water. I'm not sure about that weight calculator, but 40 seems quite a bit more logical than 22 with your configuration.

 

[JohnN]

Hi

I have heard and read a lot about the "right" wing lift choices (including using the calculator), and I've got so much conflicting advice that I thought I'd just ask what wing should I get. My choices are a 28 lb, 35lb, and 40 lb one.

Currently, I'm diving in a wetsuit (7mm two piece - 14 at core), with a BCD, 20 lb. weights, and steel 100 tanks (-12 lb full, -5 lb empty buoyancy)

I'm moving to a BP/W setup (getting weight off my waist), and I plan to go drysuit in a while (though I expect to dive wet in a BP/W for a few more months at least). I also plan on going the Tech route - just to give you an idea on my future scope.

My calculations show that (worst case): I jump in with a full tank, go to 120 feet immediately, and need to compensate for my (roughly 7lb air + 15 lb suit compression): a 22 lb wing should do.
The lift to float my gear without me (at the start of the dive) is 12lb (full tank)+ 6lb backplate + a little extra (4 lb) i.e. 22 pounds.

The lift calculator, on the other hand, tells me I need a 25 lb wing (and no weight!!).

A couple of people (much more experienced than me) have told me I'd need at least a 30, and maybe closer to 40 lb lift.

I am not sure which choice is right. I believe my 20# lead is accurate from weight testing (not sure why the calculator tells me I need no weight - does my jacket bcd give me 16 lb lift when empty?

So the question is (keeping in mind future changes like dry suit and tech plans): do I get a 28 lb wing, or a 35 lb one, or 40 lb one?

Thank you

The advantage of a smaller wing is less drag, not an issue when you're diving with a drysuit

I've found that a 32 lb wing is enough for diving dry and not too bulky for those (too) infrequent trips to warm water

 

[Bob DBF]

Sounds like I'm diving the same wetsuit, I got a 40# oxycheq wing which has worked fine for me. My decision was made by finding out the buoyancy of my old jacket, which had worked well for me for years doing the same diving I do now. I probably could have gotten a 30# and had it work just fine, but sometimes the extra 10# of buoyancy can come in handy, has for me anyway.


Bob

 

[Kwjybo]

My simple math says that you need a 40b wing at a BARE Minimum. -20 of weight, -12 full cylinder, -8 to keep your head above water. I'm not sure about that weight calculator, but 40 seems quite a bit more logical than 22 with your configuration.

But I still will keep most of that weight on a belt - in that case, wouldn't the wing lift be independent of the lead weight?

 

[RJP]

Sounds like I'm diving the same wetsuit, I got a 40# oxycheq wing which has worked fine for me. My decision was made by finding out the buoyancy of my old jacket, which had worked well for me for years doing the same diving I do now. I probably could have gotten a 30# and had it work just fine, but sometimes the extra 10# of buoyancy can come in handy, has for me anyway.


Bob

I have the same wing; it's very compact/streamlined. A touch more lift than needed in some environments, but plenty of lift in cold-water, single-wing place like Galápagos Islands.

 

[Yoyodyne-88]

Sounds to me like you are overthinking it, and could benefit from less calculating and more diving.

Get in a pool or shallow water and try different configurations, testing buoyancy at the surface. Me, I'd rather have too much than too little.

If you are going to a drysuit - in cold water - extra weight translates to extra warmth. The wing should be able to support that weight at the surface, even with a flooded suit. If you go 'tech' or other routes, your gear load, tanks, etc are quite likely going to change, and you want some extra margin.

Everyone is different but I use a 40# wing. In my mind, less than 30# is "tropical" gear. YMMV.

 

[Diving Dubai]

I went through this a couple of years ago.

1. The wing will have less inherent buoyancy than a BCD. When I changed even accounting for the SS plate and STA I needed less weight.

2 think about the Steel tank full at the surface, a smaller wing may seem right with the calls but you may not feel great on the surface. I went down to a 30# wing and hated it. I too use a steel tank and have a 36# wing which is fine for me on the surface.

3. Like you, when I changed over I had less than 30 dives. Using the same gear now with over 250 dives, I carry a lot less weight 8# max with a 7mm. My point is that as you get experience your ballast needs will reduce also.

I'd go with the 36-40 range, but that's just me

 

[danvolker]

Personally I would avoid the 40 pound wing if possible....just too big with more drag than you need, and the big air bubble moving around upsetting trim is bogus as well.

See if you can get a 30 pound wing to borrow, and try this to 120....ALSO.. try getting the the surface with zero air in the 30 pound wing, from the bottom. I imagine you've heard this many times before, but the message is that you ought to be able to swim your rig up, without a functioning bc/wing. All the more reason to NOT be relying on a 40 pound monster wing.

Also know that if you are in tropical water and can dive without a wing....that diving with just the backplate and harness is much slicker--much less drag still, than even with the 18 pound lift that I typically use.

If I can be neutral at my planned bottom depth, then the wing is of no use to me--and in more of my future diving, I will be avoiding wing use for exploration dives where I am covering distance, doing transections, looking for specific things, etc....of course, this goes to efficient propulsion over large underwater distances...whether using a scooter or high end freediving fins...or a Dol-Fin


As to on the surface, I would prefer using a snorkel and swimming along, still enjoying the dive.... to using a wing as a raft, and no longer seeing anything.

 

[eelnoraa]

Hi

I have heard and read a lot about the "right" wing lift choices (including using the calculator), and I've got so much conflicting advice that I thought I'd just ask what wing should I get. My choices are a 28 lb, 35lb, and 40 lb one.

Currently, I'm diving in a wetsuit (7mm two piece - 14 at core), with a BCD, 20 lb. weights, and steel 100 tanks (-12 lb full, -5 lb empty buoyancy)

I'm moving to a BP/W setup (getting weight off my waist), and I plan to go drysuit in a while (though I expect to dive wet in a BP/W for a few more months at least). I also plan on going the Tech route - just to give you an idea on my future scope.

My calculations show that (worst case): I jump in with a full tank, go to 120 feet immediately, and need to compensate for my (roughly 7lb air + 15 lb suit compression): a 22 lb wing should do.
The lift to float my gear without me (at the start of the dive) is 12lb (full tank)+ 6lb backplate + a little extra (4 lb) i.e. 22 pounds.

The lift calculator, on the other hand, tells me I need a 25 lb wing (and no weight!!).

A couple of people (much more experienced than me) have told me I'd need at least a 30, and maybe closer to 40 lb lift.

I am not sure which choice is right. I believe my 20# lead is accurate from weight testing (not sure why the calculator tells me I need no weight - does my jacket bcd give me 16 lb lift when empty?

So the question is (keeping in mind future changes like dry suit and tech plans): do I get a 28 lb wing, or a 35 lb one, or 40 lb one?

Thank you

Assuming the number you quoted is accurate, you math is correct. 22lb is your bare minimum. But I would take a bit more for error and safety margin. I will suggest a 30lb wing. I started with a 40lb and switch to a 30lb never felt I missed the extra. But I am a smaller diver, 5'6" diving a medium/short stock drysuit and 400g undie. If my suit is fully flooded, I lose about 20lb of buoyance. I dive 100CF tank tho, so a bit less gas than you

---------- Post added October 18th, 2015 at 01:33 AM ----------

My simple math says that you need a 40b wing at a BARE Minimum. -20 of weight, -12 full cylinder, -8 to keep your head above water. I'm not sure about that weight calculator, but 40 seems quite a bit more logical than 22 with your configuration.

While I agree 40lb wing isn't necessary a bad choice, your math isn't entirely correct. There is no instance you will ever need to flow your full tank + full weight + head above water. If only head above water, your suit is submerge, giving you full buoyancy of the suit because you are at 0ft.

Case 1. OP needs 20lb of lead because this is what he needs to be neutral with empty tank. With full tank at surface full submerge, he is only -7lb negative (weight of gas). Assuming you need 8lb to float your you head. OP would only need 15lb minimum for this specific instance.

Case 2. At 120ft and full tank, suit fully compress. OP only loses 15lb due to suit buoyancy + 7lb for gas in tank, OP needs 22lb minimum.

Case 3. As OP described, ditch rig at surface. Unless OP go 100% weight integrated, he needs 22lb min here.