Collapse of the "Buddy System"

[boulderjohn]

You can say their boat, their rules, but if the discrimination were against another special interest group - women, blacks, a religious minority, etc..., I doubt support for the boat's right to discriminate would be quite as strong. Granted, you don't have a choice about whether to get an SDI certification to be black or a woman, but there's at least a tenuous analogy there.

Seriously?

If a dive operator believes that a specific practice is necessary for safety, and it can cite reasonable sources for that belief, you think that is the same as saying they will not allow people of certain ethnicities to dive with them? I don't even see the most remotely tenuous analogy there.

Whether you agree with it or not, there is a bona fide reason directly related to safety for a dive operator to enforce such a policy. It is not a discriminatory prejudice that is based on nothing but prejudice. They have their own livelihoods at stake, and it is possible that their insurance carrier has insisted upon such a rule.

When I was in Australia, I was required by local law to carry a snorkel. I didn't like it, but I stuffed one in a pocket anyway. It was not a big deal. I can comply with such rules without needing to make a big fuss about it. I feel the same way about buddy requirements. My wife does not dive, so I have done many hundreds of dives with insta-buddies of varying degrees of quality. In most cases, I met very fine people I am glad to have met. In a tiny handful of cases, I would have been better off solo. So what? To me it is like the Australia snorkel regulation, and I can live with it easily.

 

[drrich2]

It is not a discriminatory prejudice that is based on nothing but prejudice.

2 Instabuddies, both fresh out of PADI (or SSI) OW, doing 1st ocean dive, are cleared to jump in.

Properly trained, equipped & certified solo diver with hundreds of dives is denied. Same boat, same day, same dive & conditions. A blanket judgment rooted in a prejudice that solo diving is unacceptably dangerous but buddy diving is not.

Bona fide indeed.

Now, while we're talking tenuous analogies, a pocket snorkel & an instabuddy? Now, if you could just stuff an instabuddy in your BCD pocket & ignore him for the rest of the dive...

John, I do see your point, and I pointed out in my post that the analogy was tenuous, but it is still there.

Richard.

 

[DaleC]

How can one say buddying with an unknown person is the same as carrying a snorkel?

Either a buddy means something, or they don't. That something depends on both skill and commitment. If the skill is unknown, and the commitment is unknown, what exactly is so important about having one?

I would agree with the analogy more if you said: I carry a snorkel that my life might depend upon, given to me by someone else. It may work, it may fall apart, it may be made of paper mache. I don't know, I just put it in my pocket and dive.

Now someone might say you should put more effort into vetting a prospective buddy, and I agree. But I might sadly suggest that isn't always the case.

 

[TMHeimer]

I don't have a problem with a dive op prohibiting solo from their boat. As boulderjohn points out, it's the owner's livelyhood at stake, as well as possibly an insurance requirement. OTOH drrich2 points out the ridiculous inconsistency of 2 newbies buddying up as opposed to a solo diver with much experience. 2 new divers buddying together anywhere, boat or benign shore dive, is not a good idea in my book. But it is the norm, and I recall from my '05 OW PADI manual it was even suggested as a way to break into diving and easily find a buddy (quote: "Since you can't dive alone".....telephone #..everyone in the class..You know these divers..they want someone to dive with".). But that's the way it is. Another analogy: fire codes for wood stoves (in the north??). One guy had a stove built like a tank that was even much safer than the reglutions specified, but it was "home made or altered". Experts agreed that banning this stove was just stupid. As well, the damper on our cabin stove never worked--for a number of reasons we didn't complain to the store when we bought it. To alter it now to get it so you could shut down the stove would cause problems with insurance.

I hope dive boats will see the light someday and change as drrich2 says. But for now, that's the way it is.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Industries are often slow to change ... ask anyone who was around in the early '90's about the position agencies and dive ops took on the use of nitrox ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Kharon]

... though I too am wondering what situation you are in when some is trying to force you to buddy up.

The only point I disagree with is on the cramping (there has been another recent thread on this where the DM cramped, etc.). If you're seriously cramping a timely tow (underwater or surface) from a buddy could come in real handy.

I guess it came from a recent trip to Grand Cayman with my dive club that I never should have been on. The organizer (club prez) designated a couple who had been to Cayman 12-14 times to be dive leaders. They turned into scuba police/dive natzies. Totally effed my vacation.

I agree a timely tow would be real handy and welcome given those circumstances. I balance that against how often I might need that tow. Also, I monitor and pace myself and stay within my known limits so that a tow shouldn't be necessary. I won't say I've never gotten myself into a bit of (not so deep) doodoo. I made a stumble across the devil's tooth "shore" on GC - bearing didn't get me back to the single entry/exit point and I said eff it, I'll walk. Didn't like it but I'm still alive and kicking at nearly 68.

 

[shoredivr]

I remember the red ribbon, or wrist band, that NetDoc mentioned. It would grey out around 20 feet. The accompanying orange wrist band would turn grey at about 50 feet. This would happen in clear water to both Imperial and Metric ribbons.

Captain Don of Bonaire, water rest his bones, wrote about tying a red ribbon on his gear too.

 

[Omisson]

I respect the boat operators right to set the rules. I chose to dive boats that have rules I agree with. That's how free markets work.

Most of the northeast boats allow solo divers with certification. Great! But On vacation in Jamaica I dive with the girlfriend to bond.. On the Garloo off Long Island I dive solo... In cave country I do both... Love to solo and love to dive with other cave divers... You generally find the full cave diver a completely self sufficient and fun buddy.

 

[redacted]

I respect the boat operators right to set the rules. I chose to dive boats that have rules I agree with. That's how free markets work.

I respect those rules that are established at the time the contract is made; that is, when the op accepts payment. Things that are kept secret until the boat is ready to depart I consider as recommendations and requests (most of which I will appreciate and honor).

I believe the poster made a mistake removing himself voluntarily from the contract. Had he insisted on taking his camera and the op refused to allow him to dive, he would be in a better position for a refund

 

[flots am]

I believe the poster made a mistake removing himself voluntarily from the contract. Had he insisted on taking his camera and the op refused to allow him to dive, he would be in a better position for a refund

That might be useful in the US. I'm not so sure about Roatan.