Contaminated air incident/Are you sure your facility has clean air?

[opiniongirl]

Opiniongirl,
Which five star shop of horror is this in Canada that we should be avoiding?

Hope you start feeling better soon.

Thanks, Scubagirl..

Turns out it's many stores here on the West Coast BC that are lax...this facility is likely the only one with a WWII compressor in the parking lot...really hesitate to id the store (of course I am less than delighted with it), but rather want to raise awareness of the core issue to fellow instructors...so that PADI may get off their butts and reinstate mandatory quarterly submissions NOW rather than in January. If it was just a one-off thing - would feel differently - but it dosen't seem to be in our neck of the woods.

 

[randyjoy]

This is why I will only fill my bottles (when I finish my OW class) from the cascade system at the volunteer fire department...

Here in Texas, the air quality requirements from the state fire marshal's office for SCBA is vastly different than what we want for SCUBA. Remember that the SCBA is operated at only 1 ata, so impurities are not as likely to affect you.

I am on a PSD team, and there is no way we would fill from the VFDs. I've seen their air quality reports (which are fine for what they do). Sure, they can upgrade their equipment and fill SCUBA, but they really don't want to. Even the big PSD teams around the metroplex have different systems for the SCBA and SCUBA.

 

[dvrgaryc]

I work at a PADI 5 star facility in Florida and we are required by the state to send in the results of our air samples four times a year.

I've always been under the impression that it's in a dive shop's best interests to pump good air and just having a rumor of bad air is the "kiss of death" for a shop. Guess I was wrong.

 

[WarmWaterDiver]

Opiniongirl,

Although the following thread started off on cold water diving, it progressed (as opposed to digressed) to a discussion of breathing gas quality. Pufferfish had some interesting observations here for Canadians. Teaming with your local emergency workers for gas fills may be a Canadian trend here. You may want to PM Pufferfish with your saga.

Randyjoy - note the effects of SCBA air quality in Texas has different impacts than SCBA air quality in a cold climate. Can you imagine being a rescue worker and your SCBA regulator suffering an internal icing flow stoppage during a response? I grew up in South texas and never thought about this before being part of this discussion.

http://scubaboard.com/t47081-.html

 

[Zoe83]

That is so scarey, i would be suing them for sure. I hope someone gets off their a*ss and fixes the problem.

 

[Delta_P]

W.C.B. of B.C. used to provide free air analysis for commercial dive compressors. Unfortunately this was one of the services axed following funding cuts by the new provincial government three years ago. Pity, it was a truly useful safety service.

I've run into two different situations trying to get air from LDSes. The first is not being able to produce a valid air test certificate. I'm sure that sometimes this is an honest mistake, but where the shop is catering to tech divers it indicates a lack of attention to detail that concerns me. If the shop is one of those who insist on oxygen-cleaning your mustache before selling you nitrox I find it irritating as hell.

The second is an air test certificate to the wrong standard. Drager tubes don't cut it. It costs about $50 more plus shipping to send your sample to a properly equipped lab, apparently more than some shops can afford. There is no law against selling CGA Grade D air to the public, but there certainly is a problem where commercial divers are concerned. (Technically though, I suppose the law is against breathing it, not selling it.) The law is quite clear (WCB Regulations):

24.26 Breathing mediums

(1) If air is used as the respirable medium in diving operations it must meet the requirements of CSA Standard CAN/CSA-Z275.2-92, Occupational Safety Code for Diving Operations, with the exception of the water vapour standard.

(2) The air supplied by compressors for breathing air in diving operations must be tested at least annually to ensure that it meets the requirements of subsection (1).


The law is also quite clear in the specific case described by the original poster:

24.28 Compressor intake

The compressor intake must be located so that the breathing medium will not be contaminated by gasoline vapours, engine exhausts, or other objectionable impurities.


Again, if commercial divers are involved, this situation is illegal. If a shop is just selling to the public though, I fear the only recourse is to vote with your dollar ($.76 US). The diving community isn't that large, eventually word will get around and shops will figure out what they have to do to keep their customers. In the meantime, sport divers need to learn how to read air analysis reports and walk if they aren't available. There's a lot of places that aren't interested in becoming PADI five star facilities ever.

 

[fmw625]

I don't see how you could fill scuba tanks from the cascade at out our VFD. The scba bottles are filled to 2270# and the highest pressure on the cascade is 3000#. After a few bottle fills @ 2270# the pressure is lower. Isn't 3000# considered a full tank?

 

[wsparks]

Old steel 72's are 2250psi and the low pressure cylinders are normally below 2700psi for a good fill. This is why it is easier to get a good fill on a low pressure cylinder vs a high pressure cylinder.

 

[opiniongirl]

W.C.B. of B.C. used to provide free air analysis for commercial dive compressors. Unfortunately this was one of the services axed following funding cuts by the new provincial government three years ago. Pity, it was a truly useful safety service.

I've run into two different situations trying to get air from LDSes. The first is not being able to produce a valid air test certificate. I'm sure that sometimes this is an honest mistake, but where the shop is catering to tech divers it indicates a lack of attention to detail that concerns me. If the shop is one of those who insist on oxygen-cleaning your mustache before selling you nitrox I find it irritating as hell.

The second is an air test certificate to the wrong standard. Drager tubes don't cut it. It costs about $50 more plus shipping to send your sample to a properly equipped lab, apparently more than some shops can afford. There is no law against selling CGA Grade D air to the public, but there certainly is a problem where commercial divers are concerned. (Technically though, I suppose the law is against breathing it, not selling it.) The law is quite clear (WCB Regulations):

24.26 Breathing mediums

(1) If air is used as the respirable medium in diving operations it must meet the requirements of CSA Standard CAN/CSA-Z275.2-92, Occupational Safety Code for Diving Operations, with the exception of the water vapour standard.

(2) The air supplied by compressors for breathing air in diving operations must be tested at least annually to ensure that it meets the requirements of subsection (1).


The law is also quite clear in the specific case described by the original poster:

24.28 Compressor intake

The compressor intake must be located so that the breathing medium will not be contaminated by gasoline vapours, engine exhausts, or other objectionable impurities.


Again, if commercial divers are involved, this situation is illegal. If a shop is just selling to the public though, I fear the only recourse is to vote with your dollar ($.76 US). The diving community isn't that large, eventually word will get around and shops will figure out what they have to do to keep their customers. In the meantime, sport divers need to learn how to read air analysis reports and walk if they aren't available. There's a lot of places that aren't interested in becoming PADI five star facilities ever.

Hi,

And thanks for that..you wouldn't believe how frustrating it's been for us. WCB stated in their report that the possibility for contamination was there - but they can't force the owner to move it?! It's three feet off the ground in a semi-enclosed parking area.
The owner told WCB that "he would watch for cars" whenever he ran the compressor..

When we told WCB about this - it took them over a month and a half to inspect - basically we threatened to go to the media if they did not send someone out immediately. That sent them running.

You are SO right about the certificates - PADI facilities even get a group rate with Trace analytics (US), and Trace even automatically forwards the results to PADI. We had to move a course (mid course, no less) to another facility - but had a heck of a time trying to find a facility here that was current. We had to go 2 cities away to finally find one.

Horrible - we knew it was a dangerous situation, but were not helped by either PADI or WCB - only the dr's at the hyperbaric chamber. That's why I put this post - many divers are under the misconception that PADI facilities (5* especially) are certified safe air. The public needs to be warned to check for certificates prominently posted at any air station.

thanks again for your input - are you a commercial diver?

 

[Delta_P]

..you wouldn't believe how frustrating it's been for us.

I've been beating my head against this particular wall for several years now. If I had someone actually injured by bad air the frustration would be, ah, intense.

- PADI facilities even get a group rate with Trace analytics (US), and Trace even automatically forwards the results to PADI.

I'd forgotten about Trace. Both CanTest and Lawrence-Factor will report results based on the CAN/CSA Z180.1 standard and provide good service, so we haven't looked any farther.

We did have a case after the WCB dropped their testing service of a lab testing to a lower standard when we didn't specify "air used for diving" on the sample. One would have assumed the scuba tank was a hint. A good lesson in assuming nothing.

The CGA Grade D thing is really starting to get on my nerves - I stumbled across another Grade D certificate just last week. CGA Grade D is designated for air used at the surface - Scott Air Pacs and the like. Some jurisdictions down in the States do actually accept it for diving, but if a shop insists on using a CGA standard the least they could do is use the proper CGA Grade E standard, which is supposed to be good for compressed air down to 130 feet.

The Canadian standards are more stringent than the CGA standards for carbon monoxide and dioxide limits, among other things. We've had problems a couple of times with our main compressor's air test results. Both times the problem appeared to have been caused by excess moisture not being drained off the filters properly. (High humidity on the West Coast? Who'd have guessed?) Both times the problem showed up as elevated CO2 levels and both times the air would have passed Grade D standards. It was nice to have a bit more of a warning about impending systems failure.

In this part of the world, if I don't have a certificate saying CAN/CSA Z180.1-M85 or Z275.4-97, I'm not breathing it. Long gone the days of my foolish youth when I'd willingly breathe all sorts of weird stuff. A well maintained and properly operated system (even a portable with a small filter stack) has no problem producing air which will meet the CSA standard.

are you a commercial diver?

No, a research diver. I work with commercial divers on occassion.