Cookies or arrows?

[Daedalus]

I have never dove in Mexico, but from what I read about the confounding line protocols I wonder whether are designed to ensure employment for guides or to ensure diver safety.

 

[rjack321]

I have never dove in Mexico, but from what I read about the confounding line protocols I wonder whether are designed to ensure employment for guides or to ensure diver safety.

LOL that may be true. At least at my level I have never run into more than one "<< >" or arrow direction change on a dive. One wacky thing per dive I can manage, although the place is like swiss cheese and finding the line you want is way easier with a guide. Stick maps of the line's direction/orientation to the cavern area are invaluable down there.

 

[strazz]

I tend to like the idea of not changing the direction of the cave, particularly in situations where there are multiple exits. If the cave is set up so that the arrows point to the nearest exit (not necessarily YOUR exit, placing opposing arrows could really mess up someone's day. Especially us newbies.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying that you want the arrows to always point the same direction? E.g., always from OGS towards P1 at Peacock?

 

[limeyx]

Lost diver drills I use an arrow to indicate the point at which I have recalculated gas and started back into the cave and also if I have to tie in and search off the mainline.

When refinding the line after lost line, I use an arrow to indicate the direction I've chosen to go.

These are where I think I was taught something different by Danny
I think he wanted us to place an arrow (pointing *with* the other arrows, so not necessarily to our exit) and then place a cookie in the direction we had gone
that way you dont change the cave navigation

For the second case (when refinding the line) Danny definitely wanted us to place a cookie to indicate our direction of exit (and then move the cookie if we discovered we had gone the wrong way and come back)

 

[limeyx]

Another thing your poll forgot to ask:

When deciding to mark a point on the line w/ a cookie, do you place one for the team, or does each team member place a cookie?

Kevin

each team member

 

[PerroneFord]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying that you want the arrows to always point the same direction? E.g., always from OGS towards P1 at Peacock?

No that's not what I am saying. What I am saying is that if I reach a spot where the arrows change direction to point to a closer exit (and I have not verified that exit is good) I'll drop a cookie on the line to indicate MY known good exit. What I don't want is an opposing arrow on that line.

 

[limeyx]

Here are my comments on the linked page:

It's unnecessarily making things more complicated than they are. Ideally, a diver is NOT dependent on the line and the arrows. They're for reference and emergency use.
...

I see this kind of statement quite a bit, and seemingly mostly from people that dive Florida caves.

I am wondering if that is because navigation is more of a pain in Mexico, or if in Florida in general, the permenant markings are just more chaotic/of less use so you really cannot rely on them?

Obviously anyone could come and re-arrange the cave at any point after you pass a bunch of markings, so "relying" on something is not a good idea. learning the cave is of course vital, but as stress levels rise, having familiar markers (both permenant and those that you laid yourself) can definitely be very reassuring (esp. if vis is "dropping")

 

[strazz]

No that's not what I am saying. What I am saying is that if I reach a spot where the arrows change direction to point to a closer exit (and I have not verified that exit is good) I'll drop a cookie on the line to indicate MY known good exit. What I don't want is an opposing arrow on that line.

Okay, you had me worried for a moment

 

[limeyx]

No that's not what I am saying. What I am saying is that if I reach a spot where the arrows change direction to point to a closer exit (and I have not verified that exit is good) I'll drop a cookie on the line to indicate MY known good exit. What I don't want is an opposing arrow on that line.

Yeah, same here. Now of course you need to be careful not to rely on those as the cave monster could come in right behind you and move them all around!

 

[Daedalus]

No that's not what I am saying. What I am saying is that if I reach a spot where the arrows change direction to point to a closer exit (and I have not verified that exit is good) I'll drop a cookie on the line to indicate MY known good exit. What I don't want is an opposing arrow on that line.

...but wouldn't every arrow after the midpoint be an opposing arrow? Would you drop a cookie every 100 feet at a contradicting arrow? At the crossover jump? You would need about a dozen to do the P1 to Olsen traverse if this were the case. How many would you need to set up and complete the Grand Traverse?