Cozumel Airport Security WARNING

[azscubadude]

You mean like every military commissioned officer who is already trusted with at least secret information could be treated as a trusted traveler? You do see where that could go wrong. #2, unfortunately suffers from similar problems if those who do not meet the profile get a pass. Perhaps some probabilistic selection routine might help. But I'm not sure whether it help safety or recruitment more.

I mean a program where you go through a thorough background check. You get interviewed. You get fingerprinted. And as I mentioned even a retinal scan if necessary since it would be impossible to alter or duplicate. I don't have any problems with any of these and was happy to go through them for the Global Entry program (they don't use the retinal scan).

Not everyone is going to pass the mark. Customs and Immigration has been using this program, called Global Entry, for quite some time now and there hasn't a single incident that I know of.

When I come back from traveling anywhere in the world all the major airports in the USA have kiosks that you walk up to (that are usually totally empty), you insert your passport and put your hand on the electronic fingerprint screen so it can match your prints to the filed prints. You answer four yes or no questions. Instantly the screen pops up and knows what flight you came in on and what time you came in. You answer yes or no to the four questions by tapping the screen and it prints out a slip that you take with you. You walk right past the hundreds of people waiting in the long customs line and go collect your bags. You take your bags to another special line (ahead of everyone else) where you hand the Customs agent your slip and he waives you through customs to where you recheck your bags to your next destination. No search, no hassles, no delays.. just on my way in a grand total of about 3 minutes.

When the military gives out a security clearance there are different levels of background checks that go with the different level of security. The more sensitive the clearance the more scrutiny. In general a low ranking officer gets a very low level of scrutiny if it is just for general purposes and an enlisted soldier can have a higher security clearance than an officer, it all depends on the MOS (job) of the person getting the clearance. For every level up from there they get another background check with more scrutiny. Just because they have a security clearance in the military shouldn't give them a pass at the TSA.

Even the airline pilots that are flying the plane you are riding in have to go through the TSA line and they can crash the plane into anything they want to after the TSA check so what is the purpose. A lot of pilots are also permitted to carry guns in the cockpit and they still have to go through the TSA check and after they board the plane they could walk up and down the isle and blow away anyone they want to, how insane is this.

It is a total farce from the top to the bottom !! As I said in another post, it was fine and needed right after 911 but now it is a worthless and bloated bureaucracy that wastes billions of our tax dollars every year.

At some point you HAVE to say enough is enough and put some faith in your fellow citizens (and real intelligence agencies). Lot of things have changed since 911.

As for profiling. Most countries already use it but we are to politically correct. I didn't say racial profiling, just profiling.

 

[Mossman]

As the alien said at the end of the Buckaroo Banzai movie, in a Jamaican accent, "So what? Big deal." I'm sure all this bluster makes you feel all better, but one has to deal with the world as it is. The reality is that the TSA and all the attendant hassles with flying are here to stay. P!$$!ng and moaning and gnashing of teeth is totally ineffectual. You can deal with it or you can stay home. I would love to just breeze through the airport with no inspection of my person and possessions, have friends see me to the gate and meet me when I return, carry on a six pack of beer, park in the white zone, etc. like we did 20 years ago, but that isn't reality. I travel with the TSA in mind and conduct myself in such a way as to minimize the conflict. DSFDF and YMMV.

Out of curiosity, what do you do when you go through security in airports? Do you give the TSA people a ration of grief? If so, would you mind letting me go through ahead of you?

I am always happy as a lark, especially on the way to the vacation destination. Probably I get profiled because I'm the only happy one in line.

Last time, leaving ONT airport, I was determined to be a security zero. Wore elastic sweat shorts, no belt. Emptied pockets. Wore sandals with shoes, not to make a fashion statement, but because I'm leery about going barefoot through the metal detector (done it plenty of times before, but J gave me the ringworm scare). Took off the metal-heavy D9 and stuck in the backpack. I was as metal free as a bird. So I find out that ONT now has full body scanners which I am virgin to. I get directed into the scanner. No problem, I'm not shy. Left scanner and the TSA guy wasn't convinced. Had to get wanded too and a little pat-down by the crotch area. Was there a metal grommet in my elastic sweat shorts? Nope. No idea. Maybe he just wanted a free grope. Whatever. By the time I finished my first bloody mary at the TGI Friday's in the terminal, I was over the emotional trauma.

As long as I'm not in a hurry, the security portion of the airport hassle is always the most fun. New adventures. Checking in is boring, the bar is boring, but security always provides a bit of excitement.

Sorry, LeeAnn, that you feel TSA is so inept, evil, and ineffectual, but I shudder to think how many terrorists would have killed innocent Americans were they not on board, and how much less excitement I would have had in airports without them these past years.

 

[cvchief]

I have two that could cut the TSA down to about a dozen employees at each airport.

1. A Trusted Traveler Program (like Customs has) using a retinal scan if necessary. It would take 1 minute to go through.

2. Profiling.

Ok, Now you are talking. I JUST got my global entry. Can't wait to try it in Atlanta on the way home this trip! Taking the nephews. Told them to enjoy the wait in line. We will be in a restaurant waiting. And stop telling people or there might be a line at the kiosk. As for the difference between global entry and TSA: Global Entry sort of means they trust you not be carrying a brick of H, rather than a bomb? I mean Customs would still be the one to catch someone bringing in bomb parts or something for an attack in country right? I think you could do a similar program with TSA. And it would be pretty cool I bet with short lines as no one will want to give up the biometrics?

The only problem with profiling is the volume and I would think the indicators would leak and give the bad people to much intel. Didn't the Israelis use a well developed profile and interview system on a smaller scale? They know something about people trying to blow you up!

 

[azscubadude]

Didn't the Israelis use a well developed profile and interview system on a smaller scale? They know something about people trying to blow you up!

They can have my eye scan anytime. I've been fingerprinted many times in my life with many background checks (liquor license, Concealed Carry Permit, Military.. on and on). If I'm breaking the law they won't have any trouble finding me.

From what I have seen from TV interviews and specials, the Israelis do about 95 percent of their screening before you even get to the airport, must use very heavy duty background checks which kicks in the minute you buy a ticket.

Then they have people wandering thorough the airport striking up conversations with people. I don't even thing they are uniformed and I don't think they use security stops like the TSA. If they don't like the answers you give them or get the vibe from you they don't like they continue the interview in a more secure way (or room).

I could be wrong in some of this but from what I have seen and heard that is their procedure. The rub is always that Israel is a very small country with only one major airport to cover where the US is hundreds of airport and tens of thousands (or more) of travelers every day. But one thing is for sure, even being surrounded by many countries that want them wiped of the face of the earth they have never had an incident stemming from their security at the Ben Gurion Airport.

 

[cvchief]

AZ, That is pretty much what I remembered reading. It gives a nice contrast between doing it "right" and doing it the best you can with what you got.

The wife didn't like the idea of giving the gov prints for global entry until I reminded her of her ten-card to teach. Still the more people who don't like it, the shorter the 'special' line!

 

[ggunn]

They can have my eye scan anytime. I've been fingerprinted many times in my life with many background checks (liquor license, Concealed Carry Permit, Military.. on and on). If I'm breaking the law they won't have any trouble finding me.

From what I have seen from TV interviews and specials, the Israelis do about 95 percent of their screening before you even get to the airport, must use very heavy duty background checks which kicks in the minute you buy a ticket.

Then they have people wandering thorough the airport striking up conversations with people. I don't even thing they are uniformed and I don't think they use security stops like the TSA. If they don't like the answers you give them or get the vibe from you they don't like they continue the interview in a more secure way (or room).

I could be wrong in some of this but from what I have seen and heard that is their procedure. The rub is always that Israel is a very small country with only one major airport to cover where the US is hundreds of airport and tens of thousands (or more) of travelers every day. But one thing is for sure, even being surrounded by many countries that want them wiped of the face of the earth they have never had an incident stemming from their security at the Ben Gurion Airport.

The same can be said for virtually every airport in the US as well. But you got it right; they have a much smaller front to defend. Any airport in the US that serves a major carrier is a potential entry point into the system, and once you are in, you can get to anywhere without further scrutiny.

 

[redacted]

I mean a program where you go through a thorough background check. You get interviewed. You get fingerprinted. And as I mentioned even a retinal scan if necessary since it would be impossible to alter or duplicate. I don't have any problems with any of these and was happy to go through them for the Global Entry program (they don't use the retinal scan).

Not everyone is going to pass the mark. Customs and Immigration has been using this program, called Global Entry, for quite some time now and there hasn't a single incident that I know of.

When I come back from traveling anywhere in the world all the major airports in the USA have kiosks that you walk up to (that are usually totally empty), you insert your passport and put your hand on the electronic fingerprint screen so it can match your prints to the filed prints. You answer four yes or no questions. Instantly the screen pops up and knows what flight you came in on and what time you came in. You answer yes or no to the four questions by tapping the screen and it prints out a slip that you take with you. You walk right past the hundreds of people waiting in the long customs line and go collect your bags. You take your bags to another special line (ahead of everyone else) where you hand the Customs agent your slip and he waives you through customs to where you recheck your bags to your next destination. No search, no hassles, no delays.. just on my way in a grand total of about 3 minutes.

When the military gives out a security clearance there are different levels of background checks that go with the different level of security. The more sensitive the clearance the more scrutiny. In general a low ranking officer gets a very low level of scrutiny if it is just for general purposes. For every level up from there they get another background check. There is nothing wrong with them having to go through the same one that you or I would go through if they didn't want to go through the TSA line.

Even the airline pilots that are flying the plane you are riding in have to go through the TSA line and they can crash the plane into anything they want to after the TSA check. A lot of pilots are also permitted to carry guns in the cockpit and they still have to go through the TSA check and after they board the plane they could walk up and down the isle and blow away anyone they want to.

It is a total farce !!

At some point you HAVE to say enough is enough and put some faith in your fellow citizens (and real intelligence agencies) !!

As for profiling. Most countries already use it but we are to politically correct. I didn't say racial profiling, just profiling.

Unfortunately, Army MAJ Nadal Hasan went though all those qualifications - background checks, interviews, fingerprints - Retinal scan is just another form of ID. All commissioned officers have at least a secret clearance. A TS clearance is a very similar investigation but conducted (renewed) more often. None of that keeps the individual from being an enemy or becoming one. A different frequency or level of TSA screening might be feasible, but a free pass just creates a security loophole.

 

[Leejnd]

Sorry, LeeAnn, that you feel TSA is so inept, evil, and ineffectual, but I shudder to think how many terrorists would have killed innocent Americans were they not on board, and how much less excitement I would have had in airports without them these past years.

And what on earth makes you think that there are ANY terrorists making ANY attempts to board ANY of our aircraft? Think about it: if terrorists were trying to blow up Americans in America, they'd be doing it in droves at places where they don't have to have their crotches grabbed by uneducated Wallmart rejects. Why this obsession with airplanes? The terrorists don't have it - only TSA does. Terrorists could, today, blow up nightclubs (a la Bali), trains (a la Spain), or buses (a la Israel). But they haven't. So why are we spending BILLIONS of dollars trying to stop terrorist from blowing up planes, when there's no evidence there are any terrorists trying to blow them up?

Common sense. Just use some common sense. Think it through. Stop believing the tripe fed you by a bloated government agency that serves no purpose other than to provide jobs for tens of thousands of otherwise-unemployable workers.

Face it: there is no such thing as total protection from people who want to kill you. The only way would be to have TSA-style checkpoints at every person's front door. Would THAT give you pause for thought? Or would you say "hey, I don't want no scawy tewowist blowing up my car - I want the gov'ment to search my anal cavity every time I leave my house!"

The terrorists crashed planes on 9/11 because they could. Today they can't - and that's NOT because of TSA. It's because of reinforced cockpit doors and aware passengers. TSA does nothing except security theater. They aren't evil - they're just worthless and useless. A total waste of 6 BILLION dollars a year.

But if that doesn't bother you...whatever. Personally I'd rather see the money go to something other than a make-work program for uneducated losers. Vote your heart. I'll vote mine.

 

[Basscat]

And what on earth makes you think that there are ANY terrorists making ANY attempts to board ANY of our aircraft? Think about it: if terrorists were trying to blow up Americans in America, they'd be doing it in droves at places where they don't have to have their crotches grabbed by uneducated Wallmart rejects. Why this obsession with airplanes? The terrorists don't have it - only TSA does. Terrorists could, today, blow up nightclubs (a la Bali), trains (a la Spain), or buses (a la Israel). But they haven't. So why are we spending BILLIONS of dollars trying to stop terrorist from blowing up planes, when there's no evidence there are any terrorists trying to blow them up?

Common sense. Just use some common sense. Think it through. Stop believing the tripe fed you by a bloated government agency that serves no purpose other than to provide jobs for tens of thousands of otherwise-unemployable workers.

Face it: there is no such thing as total protection from people who want to kill you. The only way would be to have TSA-style checkpoints at every person's front door. Would THAT give you pause for thought? Or would you say "hey, I don't want no scawy tewowist blowing up my car - I want the gov'ment to search my anal cavity every time I leave my house!"

The terrorists crashed planes on 9/11 because they could. Today they can't - and that's NOT because of TSA. It's because of reinforced cockpit doors and aware passengers. TSA does nothing except security theater. They aren't evil - they're just worthless and useless. A total waste of 6 BILLION dollars a year.

But if that doesn't bother you...whatever. Personally I'd rather see the money go to something other than a make-work program for uneducated losers. Vote your heart. I'll vote mine.

AMEN!! Well said, thank you for that.

 

[Mossman]

And what on earth makes you think that there are ANY terrorists making ANY attempts to board ANY of our aircraft? Think about it: if terrorists were trying to blow up Americans in America, they'd be doing it in droves at places where they don't have to have their crotches grabbed by uneducated Wallmart rejects. Why this obsession with airplanes? The terrorists don't have it - only TSA does. Terrorists could, today, blow up nightclubs (a la Bali), trains (a la Spain), or buses (a la Israel). But they haven't. So why are we spending BILLIONS of dollars trying to stop terrorist from blowing up planes, when there's no evidence there are any terrorists trying to blow them up?

Clearly TSA is having a deterrent effect.

Common sense. Just use some common sense. Think it through. Stop believing the tripe fed you by a bloated government agency that serves no purpose other than to provide jobs for tens of thousands of otherwise-unemployable workers.

So how much would you relax security? At some point, it would be lax enough so any yahoo could bring a gun on board. If that were the case, I'd be more worried about Texans than terrorists.

Face it: there is no such thing as total protection from people who want to kill you. The only way would be to have TSA-style checkpoints at every person's front door. Would THAT give you pause for thought? Or would you say "hey, I don't want no scawy tewowist blowing up my car - I want the gov'ment to search my anal cavity every time I leave my house!"

Hindsight is a bitch. After being blown to bits, I might reconsider that anal cavity searching. Of course it'd be too late then.

The terrorists crashed planes on 9/11 because they could. Today they can't - and that's NOT because of TSA. It's because of reinforced cockpit doors and aware passengers. TSA does nothing except security theater. They aren't evil - they're just worthless and useless. A total waste of 6 BILLION dollars a year.

But if that doesn't bother you...whatever. Personally I'd rather see the money go to something other than a make-work program for uneducated losers. Vote your heart. I'll vote mine.

It's the reinforced cockpit doors and aware passengers that are the real theater. Do you think a competent terrorist or several with weapons successfully smuggled though the now non-existent TSA couldn't figure out how to get the pilots to open the cockpit door? No, it's not perfect, but it's not too intrusive yet either, as indicated by all the hordes of airplane travelers that don't whine about it. Cavity searches, well that might cross the line, but right now we're doing fine. The 100% success rate since TSA has been put in place speaks for itself, just as the 100% non-death rate of DIR divers speaks for itself.