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Discussion in 'Advanced Scuba' started by seahorsey, Sep 21, 2010.

  1. CaveMD

    CaveMD Cave Instructor

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: Florida
    484
    57
    I think a more meaningful statistic for us to look at would be # of deaths/# of buddy scuba divers(with rating >= to AOW) and compare it to #of deaths on declared solo dive by solo cert divers/ # of solo cert divers


    the critical statistical fallacy that many people fall into while attempting to sensationalize #'s to fit their agenda is comparing two groups without adjusting for the inequalities between groups.
    In essence you are comparing the size of one farmers apples to another farmers oranges...in order to give any level of meaning to the comparison you would have to first compare each farmers produce to the average for that particular produce...then compare the two farmers based on how they differ from the mean.
     
  2. Meister481

    Meister481 Tech Instructor

    # of Dives: 0 - 24
    Location: Greenwood, Indiana
    642
    4
    Just looking at the statistics is scary. If 14% of accidents happened to solo divers, then that means buddy teams were responsible for 86% of accidents. This buddy diving thing is dangerous!!

    lol
     
  3. seahorsey

    seahorsey Instructor, Scuba

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Deadman Valley, BC ( 100 km from Kamloops)
    107
    1
    :rofl3:
    And that's just the damage buddy diving does to divers' physical health! What about the untold mental pain, stress and anguish? It should come with a label
    'Warning: Buddy diving can cause depression, and engender feelings of intense frustration that may be harmful to your mental health.'
    Thanks for all the comments. I guess I have to buckle down and plow through the actual, individual causes of fatalities to see what picture emerges, to see if there are any helpful or cautionary tales there. I was just being lazy and had hoped maybe someone else had done that already, from a solo divers' POV.
     
  4. Thalassamania

    Thalassamania Diving Polymath ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 5,000 - ∞
    Location: On a large pile of smokin' A'a, the most isolated
    22,171
    2,772
    No, I would not expect these statistics to include "bolters" in that they were part of a buddy pair at the start of the incident and what occurred was thus witnessed, e.g., he bolted for the surface.
    ... or that we should exercise better buddy discipline.
    If they were not prepared to dive as a buddy they were not likely to be prepared to dive solo, either in terms of equipment or skills.
    I think this is demonstrably untrue. Let's take two (or three) well trained, well prepared "solo divers" who are also capable of diving as part of team. Who has less risk, one of the divers off on his or her own or two or more operating as a well organized team?
    Since we lack denominators that approach doesn't work, so more to the point, as a first approximation, is the question, "are 14% of all the dives made performed by solo divers?"
    While that's cute, it is disingenuous.
     
  5. Meister481

    Meister481 Tech Instructor

    # of Dives: 0 - 24
    Location: Greenwood, Indiana
    642
    4
    Hence the LOL

    My feeling is that a diver diving without a buddy who isn't properly trained or equipped to self rescue at the intended depth isn't diving solo. They are asking for trouble.
     
  6. Thalassamania

    Thalassamania Diving Polymath ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 5,000 - ∞
    Location: On a large pile of smokin' A'a, the most isolated
    22,171
    2,772
    My feeling is that a diver diving without a buddy who is properly trained or equipped to self rescue at the intended depth and is diving solo, is asking for trouble.
     
  7. Meister481

    Meister481 Tech Instructor

    # of Dives: 0 - 24
    Location: Greenwood, Indiana
    642
    4
    I can agree to respectfully disagree. In most environments buddy diving can be safer, but there are some places where solo is a necessity.
     
  8. Thalassamania

    Thalassamania Diving Polymath ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 5,000 - ∞
    Location: On a large pile of smokin' A'a, the most isolated
    22,171
    2,772
    Please list two.
     
  9. MauiScubaSteve

    MauiScubaSteve Instructor, Scuba

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: Olowalu, Maui
    4,766
    191
    Sorry, have to ask;

    do you mean that you think a solo diver without the training/equipment to self rescue from the mod is asking for trouble?

    http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/hawaii-ohana/243718-molokini-kayak-dive.html

    While I think my scuba training helps, I have no solo training and I have no free dive training. What I have are 10's of thousands of solo free dives and maybe a thousand solo scuba dives. I am also in good enough shape to kayak to Molokini and back when conditions are NOT perfect, but I am also over 50.

    In a quick bounce to ~150' at the start of the dive, is it really asking for much trouble, for me? How much trouble would a solo certified, 150 dives lifetime, pudgy Kansas 35 year old be asking for? :idk:
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2010
  10. Thalassamania

    Thalassamania Diving Polymath ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 5,000 - ∞
    Location: On a large pile of smokin' A'a, the most isolated
    22,171
    2,772
    I think that a buddy of equal capability, operating with you, each of you as a part of a team, makes for a less risky situation regardless of the height of your card stack.
     

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