Dangerous Predators' Personal Space & Divers

[drrich2]

Hi:

This is a topic I've wanted to discussed for quite some time. Maybe there's a great old thread already covering it; if so, let me know. Otherwise, I think it's a good topic for scuba divers, especially fairly new divers.

There are many potentially dangerous animals in the ocean, and some in fresh water (i.e.: American alligators, cotton mouth snakes & the largest snapping turtles in the U.S.). Off-hand, I think of large moray eels, stingrays, scorpion fish, barracuda, some shark species (i.e.: bull, great white, tiger, hammerhead, oceanic white-tip), some jelly fish, cone shells, etc... Some of these aren't predators in the man-eater sense, but an agonizing sting from a stingray could trigger panic, spitting out a reg. and dying all the same.

It seems to me there is 'conventional wisdom' about how alarmed people should be when they see some of these animals; divers happily swim to within a few feet of a large green moray eel, won't get near that close to a 6' barracuda, and while they might appreciate a 14' great white sighting, wouldn't actually swim toward it, and might cautiously exit the water.

So I'd like to hear your input on how divers should regard some of these dangerous animals, and which you think should be included.

1.) Moray Eels - I list first since they're very common, widely distributed, and it's my understanding some have been semi-tamed to allow handling by dive masters who show them off for tourist groups (yet there was a report on this forum of a moray tearing into a dive master's arm and doing tendon damage). They're said to have very poor vision and seem tolerant of humans (if you don't reach into their holes), so approaching nearby is reasonable (4' would you say? 6'? ' = feet)? But be warned those habituated to a human presence might swim at you wanting hand-outs, and you could get hurt then. How close can you get to a big moray eel (i.e.: for photos) with a reasonable margin of safety?

2.) Scorpion Fish - I've encountered these in Bonaire. Small rock-like fish that mostly sits still or flees; seem fairly tolerant of proximity and I haven't seen any posture toward me aggressively. Seems like the main danger is hitting bottom and accidentally touching one.

3.) Barracuda - I've seen several small ones, but not large in the wild. On the other hand, they can clear 6' long, cut through the water at great speed (nearly 35 mph, I read in another thread), and slice decent-sized fish like yellow snapper in half. Reportedly a danger in murky water to those with bright, flashy jewelry or the like (i.e.: watches) that may be mistaken for silvery fish. However, I doubt that accounts for all accounts. Some barracuda seem to 'lair' in favored areas, from what I understand, and can be sought out much more reliably than sharks. Be wary of Barracuda who've gotten used to feeding by humans. How close could a reasonable diver approach a big (i.e.: 5 - 7') great Barracuda in water with good visibility?

Here's CubaBait's barracuda attack thread.

4.) Stingrays - obviously the Steve Erwin tragedy comes to mind. It's my understanding the main concern is stepping on one if you hit bottom, but swimming near-bottom over a very large one (? southern stingray ?) could get you nailed. There are electric rays in the ocean, but I don't hear people talking about them as a hazard.

5.) Cone Shells - a lethally venomous mollusk with a variety of shell forms from what I've seen online. I take it they're mainly dangerous only if handled. I wonder just how many divers have run afoul of these, and where in the world it's the biggest issue?

6.) Great White Sharks - the shark people post on the forum worried about. It's my understanding they're mainly cool water sharks (more a Pacific coast issue than a Caribbean issue, for instance), rarely attack humans, and are more apt to attack at the surface (mistaking humans for seals/sea lions) and victims usually don't see it coming. On the other hand, not every attack is stereotypical. The question is, what should divers do if they see a great white? Ignore it totally and dive your usual routine? (Hard to imagine). Swim down & hug the bottom until it goes away? Hover where you are until it goes away? Slowly ascend and haul out? And since sharks can detect electrical signals as a prey-finding mechanism, would it be stupid to start snapping photos if you saw a great white (assuming the camera and flash might give off subtle electrical impulses)?

7.) Tiger Sharks - Same questions as for great whites. Does seeing a big one = leave the water? Does anyone ever actually swim TOWARD one? If so, how close are we talking (50 feet? 100 feet?)?

8.) Hammerhead Sharks - It's my understanding they're considered one of the 'man-eaters,' yet divers post about seeing them, even large ones, with hardly any of the concern I see posted by divers who've seen wild great whites. Does seeing a 10' plus hammerhead bother you? Would you approach one? How close?

9.) Bull Sharks - some divers seek these out, and they are wide-spread, have attacked people and are potentially dangerous. Yet I've seen a guy on t.v. working with a group of them (and he got bitten, too). How close do you get to them?

10.) Sand Tiger Sharks - those narly rascals approaching 10' in some aquarium exhibits with the impressive looking teath. A popular feature in some diving areas, I think? How close is reasonably safe to approach one?

11.) Oceanic White-tips - not likely to be stumbled across, but how would you react?

12.) Titan Trigger Fish can hurt people; there was a recent thread on them. Worth knowing about. Here's the thread.

Does this sound like a valuable thread to have on the forum? What animals should divers be wary of I haven't mentioned?

Richard.

 

[smellzlikefish]

I'm not sure of the question, but there aren't any rules per say. With experience you kind of get a feel for what you can safely get away with, but generally, if you are afraid of it, steer clear. People get close to morays because they are everywhere, even under that rock you are using as a handhold to steady yourself. Many of the free swimmers don't let you get closer than they feel comfortable. Remember, they are much better swimmers than you so the opportunity to see a tiger or white shark is extraordinarily rare. If you want real stats, check the international shark attack files. Hammerheads, for example, have only been attributed to one confirmed attack on humans. With these enormous predators, it isn't a simple question of fight or flight. Instead, a matter of reading the animal but in my experience, if you see it, it isn't after you. I'm not sure this applies to the oceanic whitetip, since I have heard many reports of some coming in too close for comfort. The most dangerous cones come from Australia, but the danger is generally overrated for these as well. I know a shell collector who has been stung by just about every species we have here in Hawaii, and he made it through each one without having to go to the hospital. You really have to handle them to get hit. I've been bitten by a titan trigger. It felt like I had whacked myself with a hammer really hard, but I didn't lose the finger. They are very territorial and I was diving in its aquarium cleaning the rockwork when it got me. Basically, I go by one general rule for all of these: don't molest the wildlife, but even then, just like with bees on land, you can't always guarantee you will be safe.

 

[Deefstes]

Excellent question. I recently posted a similar question but this one is better phrased and in a more appropriate forum anyway so I'll follow it closely.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Sand Tigers are number 4 on the dangerous list as they are comonly encountered and commonly molested (hitching a ride on a dorsal fin etc) or provoked (spearfishing in close proximity to them). So in a sense it is a complacency issue, you get used to them, take then for granted and then get careless.

I have had them swim within a foot or so of me and I have had them come out of bait balls right next to me and it was no big deal as they were just cruising along basically ignoring me. However on one occasion I ran a reel a hundred feet or so off a wreck and I am not sure if it was me being unique being off the wreck or the line, but they associated me with hunting and were right THERE right NOW looking for a catch to steal. Similarly, if you start digging around a wreck and lift a plate or something, they will also be right there to see if you pull out anything edible. They aren't stupid.

Getting close than 5-6 ft to a barracuda is harder as they will keep you at a 5-6 ft distance as their eyes focus better at that distance. I have been much closer, but that was a situation where I swam up over one at a cleaning station - the only time I have ever seen that.

 

[drrich2]

Smellzlikefish:

I'm not sure of the question, but there aren't any rules per say.

You got it just fine. I've been near a number or morays, although I only got quite close to one really big green moray. I normally wouldn't expect a moray to bother me, but one accustomed to being fed by divers might swim out to me, I suppose; a big one might freak me out a big.

Good to know about the cone shells. So far I've not been inclined to handled the animals I've seen diving, aside from trying to catch crabs along shore and that sort of thing.

DA Aquamaster:

Very interesting about the barracuda, and just the sort of thing I was getting at. I've encountered several small barracuda, but nothing wild over 3 feet long. On the other hand, at Tennessee Aquarium in Chattanooga I've seen large adults in captivity, and coupled with what I've seen on t.v., they are impressive. I wouldn't have been willing to get within 10 feet of one without talking with someone; 5 to 6 feet seems to be tolerated at least by some, then? Probably too rich for my blood!

Glad to hear more on sand tiger sharks. I've never dove anywhere they're a common fixture, but I've seen them at Newport Aquarium in Kentucky, and to a lesser extent at Tennessee Aquarium, in captivity; an 8 or 9 footer near me in the water would be intimidating, even though I know the odds it'd attack are very low (I don't spear fish).

Richard.

 

[Ferg822]

This is overall just an odd topic because people react to marine life so differently. It's just frustrating when stories make the news about people get bit, stung, ect. by an animal when they openly provoked it in the first place.

 

[drrich2]

Ferg822:

I see what you're saying; the problem is, some folks new to diving and marine life don't have a knowledge base and frame-of-reference to provide for 'common sense' judgments.

As an analogy, I grew up around animals. House dogs, yard cats, poultry, horses, pet reptiles of a variety, a couple of pet birds. But I meet people who have little practical experience with animals; some come from cultures where house dogs aren't a common practice or for whatever reasons haven't been exposed to animals much.

I'm thinking some of these folks get into scuba diving. And even those of us who've had experience with a range of animals on land don't necessarily know whether it's okay to approach, say, a great barracuda hanging out by a wreck. Some people might say 'see what the other people do,' but then we read stories of Dive Masters acclimating large morays to handling by humans, and how that can get you torn into.

Richard.

 

[RonFrank]

I don't worry about most of the animals you list. In general they are timid, and won't attack a diver. Bull sharks, Great white sharks, and sharks in general are the exception. I give sharks, even Nurse sharks a good amount of room. Bull sharks and Great whites (never seen one of those) I would give a LOT of room, and keep a close eye on them. Learning their behavior is a plus.

I've been very close to Barracuda, and Eels. I've been very close to most of the animals you list, minus the sharks. Barracuda's are timid, and generally will move out of the way if you come to close. I did block a very large Barracuda under a ledge. When I realize I have entered his *zone* I backed out quick. Avoid wearing flashy jewelry around Barracuda. They strike at 40mph, and have been know to strike dangling ear rings. This dude was huge:

Eels are mostly blind, so keep that in mind. I've been very close to large green Morey's to take photos. They tend to be very accommodating towards divers. I got VERY close to this guy:

Trigger fish can be very aggressive. I've not run into this, but I think they are the number one cause for injuries to dives not including things like ear injuries.

Scorpion fish, and rock fish are difficult to spot, but very timid. They generally stay put unless they think you have spotted them. Then they may move a coupe of feet, and come to rest again.

I've met some very friendly Jewfish, like the one below (same as my profile), but many are just huge, and look/act mean. It may have something to do with if people feed them!

Sting Rays are also timid. Generally if you get within a couple of feet of them, they move away. Not always, sometimes they just sit there. Steve Irwin provided the world with a good example of what can happen to divers who try and handle such creatures. Keep them at tails distance, and they will either stay put, or move off.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

I don't worry about most of the animals you list. In general they are timid, and won't attack a diver. Bull sharks, Great white sharks, and sharks in general are the exception. I give sharks, even Nurse sharks a good amount of room. Bull sharks and Great whites (never seen one of those) I would give a LOT of room, and keep a close eye on them. Learning their behavior is a plus.

I've been very close to Barracuda, and Eels. I've been very close to most of the animals you list, minus the sharks. Barracuda's are timid, and generally will move out of the way if you come to close. I did block a very large Barracuda under a ledge. When I realize I have entered his *zone* I backed out quick. Avoid wearing flashy jewelry around Barracuda. They strike at 40mph, and have been know to strike dangling ear rings. This dude was huge:

Eels are mostly blind, so keep that in mind. I've been very close to large green Morey's to take photos. They tend to be very accommodating towards divers. I got VERY close to this guy:

Trigger fish can be very aggressive. I've not run into this, but I think they are the number one cause for injuries to dives not including things like ear injuries.

Scorpion fish, and rock fish are difficult to spot, but very timid. They generally stay put unless they think you have spotted them. Then they may move a coupe of feet, and come to rest again.

I've met some very friendly Jewfish, like the one below (same as my profile), but many are just huge, and look/act mean. It may have something to do with if people feed them!

Sting Rays are also timid. Generally if you get within a couple of feet of them, they move away. Not always, sometimes they just sit there. Steve Irwin provided the world with a good example of what can happen to divers who try and handle such creatures. Keep them at tails distance, and they will either stay put, or move off.

Great pictures....I have a rule: If it has teeth or spines or looks like it might, I don't get close. If it wants to be friendly (like the one moray I dealt with who decides it would be fun to try to snuggle with me, by sticking it's head into the bottom of my BC), then it will come close to me. Of course, when it comes to sharks, I exit the water immediately (if not sooner) if I see bull sharks. I was bumped by a small one while snorkeling in Florida by one that was chasing a school of fish. That is as close to being attacked by a shark as I ever wish to come.

 

[vladimir]

I have been bumped by a Silvertips Shark in the Coral Sea--that is too close. But it would not have happened, I'm sure, if there was no chum in the water. And that inspired my personal rule number one--give predators a much wider berth if they're exhibiting feeding behavior, or if there is food in the water. Of course the water is full of potential food, but--for this purpose--it becomes actual food when it is speared or gathered into a bait ball by predators.

My second rule is to be on the lookout for threat displays. Gray reef sharks, for example, give that agonistic behavior before attacking, and I have actually witnessed this in Palau once before a gray attacked a large video camera that got too close.

Large schools of barracuda in the Indo-pacific seem more comfortable with divers in close proximity than the Great Barracuda in the Atlantic, and I have ascended through schools of them on a few occasions, snapping photos the whole way. If it is daytime and there's no feeding going on, I see little risk there. I get real close to morays, but I keep my camera between us, and I try to avoid any animals habituated to divers, especially divers that feed them. As discussed in Deefstes' thread, I always try to leave the animal with an easy exit door besides the one through me, so if they feel threatened in any way they'll hopefully opt for the easy way.

I've only gotten a glimpse of a Tiger Shark once, from a pretty good distance, but I consider them dangerous along with Bulls, Galapagos Sharks, Blacktips and Great Hammerheads. I don't clear out of the water just because they're there, but I try to keep a respectful distance. (That mid-water ascent might not be the best idea at that time anyway.) Which brings me to my third rule--show some respect, for all the life down there. I don't touch anything, harass anything, etc. There was a cautionary story of a divemaster whose finger got severed by a puffer he was harassing. I don't wish divemasters any ill, but the score is still puffers: 1, divemasters: too many to count, so the puffers may still be anxious to narrow the margin.