"Dark Narc" Experience? Advice please!

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

I'll take the middle ground here.

I can see the involvement of CO2 retention here. It can result from shallow/rapid breathing due to stress or anxiety or it can result when divers are concerned about depoth and SAC and artifically reduce their respiration rate to stretch their gas. The effect is the saem at both extremes - the diver does not ventilate well enough to effectively remove CO2 and CO2 levels rise.

The other factor here that needs ot be considered is that CO2 tself has narcotic properties at depth and eelvated CO2 levels exacerbate nitrogen narcosis.

In general, narcosis tends to axacerbate what ever the person's mental state happens to be. If the person is happy/content/etc then euphoria is likely to be a noteable effect. If on the other hand the person is anxious, then more extreme anxiety possibly leading to panic can be the noteable effect.

This is of course on top of the diminished judgement, problem solving skills and fine motor skills that accompany narcosis, and all of those can conspire to create stressful or anxiety producing situaions - mental states that are then exacerbated by the narcossis, so a 'good' dive at depth at high ENDs can go really bad in a really short period of time.

I agree with Dennis that everyone is going to be narced at 26m, I'm not sure "very narc'd' is accurate in general, but I thin you'd see meansureable impairment in anyone. The difference here is that in an experienced diver, they have enough mental reserve to meet the demands of the dive. However for a new diver with limited recent experience with equipment issues, and an 85' END exacerbated by elevated CO2 levels, "very narc'd" is probably a very accurate statement.

There have been times when have turned deep air dives due to the onset of even very minor feelings of anxiety as they can quickly get out of control, so if it happens, my advice is to immediately turn the dive and get shallower and re-evaluate the goals/purpose of the dive.

The same applies to trimix dives as some divers on some days may feel the effects of narcosis at ENDs in the 100-120' range and in some cases, some divers will feel the effects in the 80-100' END range. Trimix is not a magic bullet but rather just away to extend a givne END to a deeper actual depth.

In any case, the ability of a diver to function "adequately" at a given END depends on ther level of experience, the degree to which the fundamental skills of diving (precision buoyancy control, trim, gas management, situational awareness, familiarity and operation of all their equipment, etc) has been mastered to a degree where it no longer requires thought or attention but rather has become automatic, and the unique chalenges of the dive. For example, doing the same deep dive for 20th time on a familiar reef or wreck where navigation is not a challenge or concern in daylight in good viz, with a buddy and dive operator you trust is far less challenging than doing a dive where one or more of those factors are different. A deep dive for the first time in poor viz on an unfamiliar wreck or reef with an insta-buddy diving off a dive boat that is an unknown quantity, at dusk or at night where navigation is a constant demand will involve much higher levels of stress, task loading and problem solvijng abilities - possibly in excess of what you may have available at that particular END.

Recognizing that in advance and planning for a shallower dive or deciding not to do the dive is ideal. But if you are in the water, and feel the dive is getting outside your comfort zone, then you need to either amend the plan to stay shallower, or you need to turn the dive.

----

In your case with only OW training, a small number of lifetime dives and a 20 year gap in currency separating you from that experience, going that deep should not have even been considered without several more dives progressively working up to that depth to gain experience, confidence and a better understanding of how you react at those ENDs. Adding in any equipment problem, such as a laking mask, is REALLY stacking the deck against yourself.

This is diving and while it is great fun, never forget people die doing it and 99.9% of the time those deaths are 100% preventable. So be prudent, think and never, ever do a "trust me" dive, even with an instructor. I'm a little biased and more than a little jaded, but in my experience there are far too many OW instructors who are compete and total morons. Trust none of them completely and develop the ability to understnad the issues and come to your own conclusions as you, not your instructor, are the one who wil be responsible for your safety and you will be the one dead if you get yourself in a situation from which you cannot safely recover.
 
So on what do you base your statement that he was "very narc'd" at 26m?

DA Aquamaster said it best in his post. The OP had little recent experience diving to those depths. I probably should have mentioned that, but it was in my thought process.
 
Beautiful post, DAA.
 
I'll refrain from speculating as to the cause of your particular issues, as other posters have touched on possible causes (CO2 retention, anxiety, equipment issues, narcosis).

However, I had a similar experience a few months ago after a long break from diving and I think I can offer some perspective and advice. Back in early July, I had an event that shook my confidence (I'm an experienced diver, but had taken several years off due to family commitments), due to anxiety related to an insta-buddy who's skills I did not trust, and some CO2 retention. The specifics of the event aren't really important, but suffice it to say that my confidence was shaken, and following that event, I had psychological difficulties with diving and reduced confidence overall.

I had moments where I considered giving up diving altogether, even though I love to dive. Based on advice from other experienced divers, I continued to dive. Through training refreshers, diving well within my comfort level, skills review and practice, I was able to work through the confidence and anxiety issues. It was kind of a bumpy road - I thumbed a few dives I wasn't comfortable with, worked through the anxiety, and a few months and 40 or so dives later, I'm back to being comfortable in the water again.

If I were in your position, I'd avoid diving in situations that cause you distress, build up your skills and confidence level, and work up to the deeper dives if you so choose. Work on skills, seek additional training and dive with more experienced divers, if you can.
 
I haven't had anything like you experienced, and I'm a newer diver (so, you are wondering, why am I posting here); but I did have some moments early on where I started to feel like I couldn't breathe, and, like people mentioned here, I think it was CO retention.

This is a tip that I picked up here on Scubaboard, but it really helped me, and it was specifically to make sure I breathe OUT. People talk about even breathing, and etc., but until I read that specifically, it just didn't click that I was breathing IN evenly but not breathing OUT evenly (if that makes sense).

Now, if I start to feel a little bit like I can't breathe or a tiny bit of mental "Wow, I'm way underwater and breathing out of a small mechanical device" creeps in, I make a point of exhaling very fully for a number of breaths (I kind of do an "ahhhhh" sound at the same time), and all is well again (of course breathe in too so you don't mess up buoyancy).

I don't mean to make light of your situation with just a "little" tip, but I thought it might help.
 
It has already been said, but my feeling is that having equipment that you are confident about is incredibly helpful in keeping calm, and sometimes it is underestimated. I was reminded of this recently when, after going for some cenote diving in MX, I decided to join a night dive in the sea with a local dive shop. I was planing to dive my usual configuration (BP/W) but realized once I was boarding the boat that I had forgotten my STA. The dive shop lent me a jacket BCD and I spent the boat ride figuring out how to fit my usual equipment around it. I was very surprised by the extra task loading and diminished awareness that resulted from this unfamiliar equipment, even though it was working perfectly.

The point is that, being able to take your mind off the equipment makes a very big difference. Get a good fitting mask and wetsuit as soon as you can. Use them in shallow easy dives such that you are confident that they will behave exactly as expected and then move on to more challenging dives.
 
DA Aquamaster said it best in his post. The OP had little recent experience diving to those depths. I probably should have mentioned that, but it was in my thought process.

Fair enough. When I read your OP it sounded like you were discounting the other factors and just attributing the problem to narcosis

IMO the timeline was something like this:

1. Anxiety due to lack of recent diving/deep diving
2. Stress due to poorly fitting mask & wetsuit and buddy seperation issues
3. Increased respiration leading to CO2 buildup
4. Narcosis combined with above factors leads to panic attack

Most people, especially guys, don't like admitting that they had a panic attack and perhaps it's easier for them to say 'I had a dark narc'... but if you could eliminate or reduce steps 1-3 above then the narcosis itself may not have been an issue
 
I had pretty much the exact same experience on my AOW Deep Dive checkout.

I'm a pack a day smoker but usually quit smoking for a few days before diving, even though I've noticed no difference in my SAC when I do this. It does, however, mean my sinuses are super clear.

The night before the dive, an impromptu party developed on my porch, I ended up drinking a lot (for me) and smoking way more then I usually would. The dive was scheduled for 8am the next day, and when the alarm sounded at 7 I felt like trash. I hydrated as much as I could, and turn up at the lake.

I usually dive a 3mm (texas lakes :) ) but the instructor had warned me about temperatures, so I had rented a hood. The other students thought it was ballsy but I had never been cold, of course I had never been past 80ft either, and our dive plan was "drop to or as clos as poss to 120ft, answer an easy maths question, and ascend". 3 students inc. me, instructor, and a DM.

At 90ft I was freezing and started shivering. At 100ft I couldn't breathe anymore - or so I thought, I was in fact still breathing. I had my light on the back of the DMs head, about to signal, but decided to try and calm down, take slower, deeper breaths and check my gauges, which reduced my panic to bearable levels. We hit target depth, my maths question was super easy, and the ascent was uneventful.

1. My stupid hangover had made me nervous about the deep dive. I knew the effects of dehydration on N2 narcosis (makes it much much worse) and was worried.
2. The lack of proper exposure protection caused my shallow, fast breathing, which increased my stress to almost panic levels
3. Narcosis and possible CO2 retention feels like you are literally about to die, it was awful. Your post described the feeling very accurately.
3. Consciously deciding to CALM THE F DOWN SMITZ, assess the situation, slow my breathing and focus on my gauges fixed my problems at the last minute and I was able to complete the dive.

A few months later the three of us planned to hit 130ft in much colder water. No hangover, no smoking, a new 5mm suit and hood, and .. nothing. No narc, no panic, slow breathing, no reg problems. We drop down, look around, smile, and head up the lake slope. Fingers crossed, doing that deep check out diving given my physical and mental condition will be the dumbest diving related thing I ever do.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

Back
Top Bottom