Deep Air

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

Rhone Man

Contributor
Scuba Instructor
Divemaster
Messages
11,299
Reaction score
10,743
Location
British Virgin Islands
# of dives
1000 - 2499
I have been thinking a lot about deep air lately, and as the board has been generally civilized lately, I thought it might be a good time to revisit it as one of the traditional "hot button" topics. Two things in particular that I read gave me lots of food for thought.

  • The first was this blog by Richard Pyle about the time he got bent (which was linked in another thread). No one suggests that Richard's dive profile for that day was smart, or even sane (being forced into doing IWR, and then going back in for another 140 foot dive?). But what was sort of interesting to me was frankly how far Richard was able to push it before he got into trouble.
  • The second was various bits from Bret Gilliam's book on Deep Diving, now available online couresy of Google Books (see Chapter 1 - History of Deep Diving). Bret talks a lot about various attempts (including his own) to set the world record for deep air diving. Again, as harrowing as the failures are (it seems that about half of the attempts resulted in death, some reported in appropriately gruesome fashion by Bret), what interested me was the two record setting attemps by Bret himself and later by Dan Manion. Brett dived to 475 feet on air, performed various narcosis tests, and although he suffered some incapacity, certainly didn't seem to be insensible. Conversely Dan Manion (and Archie Forfar and Anne Gunderson, who died) appeared to be completely incapacitated, and had no recollection of his time at depth. Clearly narcosis affects people differently, but it did kind of astonish me that Bret could be that deep on air and still function (in much the same way but to a greater degree that it amazes me that the John Chattertons and the Gary Gentiles of the world used to pentrate wrecks at 230 odd feet, or even deeper).

OxTox footnotes. Two other things that jumped out at me from those passages were about O2 toxicity. During his recompression treatment, Richard Pyle was briefly hooked up to pure oxygen at 7.7 ATA (about 220 fsw equivalent). I had assumed that would kill you stone dead, but Richard reports they just took the mask off when they realised the error and he survived unscathed. Similarly, for our deep air record setters, even on air they were breathing oxygen at a partial pressures of 3.23 ATA (Gilliam) and 3.45 ATA (Manion). Bret talks about spending 5 minutes at depth, but doesn't detail his decompression schedule, so we don't know the time of exposure (although I recall Bret is on SB from time to time, so if he reads this, maybe he can answer?).

Certainly lots of food for thought and discussion in there, even for those who are staunchly opposed to the idea of deep air diving.
 
Done it in the past, but definetely against it today. Helium is the answer. Recently did some warm water dives in the 140-170fsw range. Did air dil one day and felt "with it." Did 21/35 the next day with a much clearer head.
 
I have to agree with Bill. I don't think air is the evil gas many think it is, and everyone processes nitrogen differently. But why bother? If deep is where you want to go, helium is readily available, not too expensive, and a great alternative to nitrogen. At least in the US.

On the other hand, I was diving 160 the other day, with a pretty rich mix I had left over from some other diving. Deco was almost twice as long with the 18/50 than with the air. I guess you just have to pick your helium dives.

Frank
 
I am always struck by others ability to see the world in absolute terms: this is black and that is white.

Deep air is not something to which I subscribe, but then again, what's deep. I regularly dive deeper than 30 meters with air diluent and often on OC using one or the other flavor of nitrox. There are those who would seem to condemn this practice. I think there is more to diving beyond 30 metres than narcosis. And even that is misunderstood.

ALL the empirical evidence points to a valid conclusion that there are several factors beside nitrogen partial pressure contributing to a diver's loss of situational awareness (narcosis).

CNS toxicity too is a huge variable. And for me it is this, not narcosis, that moderates my depth using air.

But always the deciding factor is working within the limits of my kit and my gas supply.
 
I was diving 160 the other day, with a pretty rich mix I had left over from some other diving. Deco was almost twice as long with the 18/50 than with the air. I guess you just have to pick your helium dives.

Or your decompression algorithms...
 
Rhone Man. Are you trying to justify the idea that deep air is fine, because some people got away with it in a past?

Isn't it similar to demanding the increase of speed limits or allowing drunk driving, because some people actually get away with it?
 
My life is worth more than whatever the cost of trimix or sitting out the dive might be....no thanks!
 
Rhone Man. Are you trying to justify the idea that deep air is fine, because some people got away with it in a past?

No, I was just trying to throw open a discussion because SB is at its best when people put forward interesting views on controversial topics.

I have my own views on deep air, but what really interested me about those two passages wasn't so much a "is deep air bad or good" discussion, but a rare insight into the windows of the extreme - narcosis or O2 toxicity at extreme depths. It startled me, so I assumed it would be the same for others, and might prompt some interesting trains of thought.
 
If you're in warm tropical 27deg C waters, no current, good viz, on an external easy tour of a wreck (like in Truk Lagoon), you can cognitively accommodate to deep air. You have trained muscle memory to handle most contingencies albeit you may be slower to process, problem solve and react . . .so you strategically mitigate your activities to avoid potential tactical overload in an emergency situation --i.g. don't penetrate the wreck; don't physically exert yourself to CO2 retention levels & starting the vicious dark narc cycle; don't do any extensive computations on-the-fly to your deco schedule; go no deeper than 60m or ppO2 1.47 etc. --keep it all nice, easy and simple. . .

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/near-misses-lessons-learned/264517-type-i-bends-hit-chuuk.html
 
Last edited:
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/
http://cavediveflorida.com/Rum_House.htm

Back
Top Bottom