DIR compliant First and Second Stages

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divermike1011

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Hi everyone, I looked through the GUE SOPs and I can't find the answer to the following questions, namely are diaphragm and pilot valve second stages allowed and what is the DIR stance on environmentally sealed first stages. If I could ask one more, what is the position on balanced vs unbalanced?

I'm looking for both the "party line" on these questions and the reasons behind them if anyone is willing to educate me.

Michael
 
I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will chime in, but here's what I've gleaned:

The 2nd stage criteria is:

Downstream (IE, no Poseidon Jetstream/Odins or XStream or other upstream regs) - so if it fails, it fails open
Easy to take apart underwater (faceplate comes off to clear debris) - to clean silt/gunk out underwater that maye have gotten in and is impeding operation.
No proprietary hoses/hose fittings, (Poseidons and some brands that use 1/2" threaded hoses) - pretty self-explanatory, since "standardization" is a big thing. A team where everyone is using regs that have "standard" hoses, the ONE guy whose reg uses proprietary hoses is gonna have the failure. Murphy is a mother****er.

First stage should just be able to route cleanly and have enough ports to allow for all the hoses. Also, runs a "standard" IP of 120-140psi, (ruling out older Poseidon Cyklons, which are downstream regs, but run a 174-181psi IP and have metric 2nd-stage hose threads). Basically no Poseidon is "DIR" no matter what. I dove Poseidon regs exclusively and have a massive stable of them. They are going bye-bye and I'm getting compliant regs. I still love 'em and they're great performers, but it is what it is.

Never specifies piston/diaphragm. I use diaphragms exclusively (Scubapro Mk17s), but nearly all of my teammates use pistons. Tomayto-tomahto, I just prefer diaphragms, but wouldn't throw rocks at cheap or free piston regs, (and indeed, I did not, since I was just given a couple of piston 1st stages, LOL).

Balanced is preferred to unbalanced, and except for entry-level regs, I can't think of any unbalanced firsts anymore.

Of course, here it is, right from the source: (scroll down to it on the original page. Also, myself and many others use balanced HP second stages on both primary and backup regs and I don't know anyone who uses hose protectors.)

Equipment Configuration | Global Underwater Explorers

Many divers prefer a high-performance, balanced, second stage as their primary regulator, and a slightly lower performance, unbalanced, second stage as their backup. This proven configuration gives a diver the best of both worlds. Stage bottle regulators are used to extend bottom time; so many divers prefer to use a similar regulator to that used as a primary. However, stage and deco first stages are more likely to be flooded with water, making piston-style regulators a common favorite. Argon bottle regulators should be robust in design and function well at a low intermediate pressure.

Two areas that tend to generate confusion are a regulator's breathing performance and its first stage intermediate pressure. The intermediate pressure (INP) is the internal pressure in the regulator's first stage. Generally speaking, the higher this pressure is, the more force is available to deliver air to the diver. However, elevated INP also increases wear on internal components, most notably on the high pressure seat which regulates air flow as it rests against or moves away from the orifice. Most regulators have an INP of approximately 140 psi. However, some regulators are designed to run at a higher internal pressure (e.g., some regulators from the Poseidon line); these are not recommended. Most regulators deliver enough air to exceed the demand of most divers. At depths below 100' (30m), where the density of air would introduce breathing resistance problems, divers switch to Helium based mixes, which at 300' (90m) are similar to breathing air at the surface. There are two basic types of regulator first stages: piston and diaphragm. A piston regulator is available either balanced or unbalanced. Unbalanced or “standard” piston first stages should only be considered for shallow low-demand applications. The balanced-piston first stage allows massive quantities of air to flow through a large piston, and is considered an extremely high performer. A balanced-diaphragm regulator, can respond quickly to inhalation demands, and so may be perceived by the diver as more sensitive.

Another important consideration in choosing a regulator is the water temperature in which the regulator will be used. Not all regulators are adequate for the extremes of ice and arctic diving. Generally, diaphragm regulators are more reliable in water that is colder than 40° F (4° C) because their sealed mechanisms resist freezing. Nonetheless, several manufacturers offer cold-water kits for their piston regulators.

Second Stage

Regulator second stages are also available in balanced and unbalanced forms. Practically, what differentiates a balanced from unbalanced second stage is that the former is a better performer while the latter is more reliable. Total failure is uncommon with any regulator. Though the unbalanced second stage does not give optimal performance, its simple design increases the likelihood of trouble-free operation.

Some second stages have an adjustment knob that, by moving the regulator seat closer to the orifice (see picture/diagram), allows the diver to increase or decrease regulator sensitivity. This should never be completely turned down because it will indent the seating surface. Many second stages also have a switch, called a venturi adjustment, which facilitates air delivery by adjusting a flow vane in the second stage body. This flow vane can either impede the flow of breathing gas to the diver's mouth or direct greater volumes to it. Lastly, several companies have second stages with storage mechanisms that are designed to hold the seating surface away from the orifice.

Hoses

Divers should use high quality hoses to reduce the risk of hose rupture, and hoses should be replaced every several years or when they begin to show wear. All hoses should be fitted with strain relief to reduce the risk of kinking and failure. While under pressure, divers should periodically pull the protector aside to ensure that there are no leaks or impending failures. Long hoses typically range from 5 to 7' (1.5-2m). Shallow open water divers who do not use a long hose commonly use a standard 32” (81.3 cm) hose. Overhead divers should use a 7' hose. Open water divers who use a long hose often use a 5 or 6' hose, depending on their size and the use of a hip-mounted canister.10

Restrictive areas, like caves, often require that divers travel single file. This means that unless divers are equipped with a long hose second stage, in the event of a failure, they will be unable to effectively share air in such an environment. The use of the long hose was primarily designed to manage air-sharing problems in restrictive areas, and has been a standard feature of cave diving for many years. Anytime divers are forced to travel while air sharing, using the long hose is mandatory. Furthermore, divers facing decompression will use a long hose. Today, many open water divers also choose the long hose because of the comfort it provides during air-sharing situations. Properly trained and equipped divers often dive with a long hose; this allows them greater flexibility while diving. The backup regulator hose should come across the diver's shoulder, allowing the regulator to sit below the chin without the hose bulging to the side.

Diving in a shallow, open water environment allows a diver direct ascent to the surface, thereby reducing air-sharing complications. In this case, divers will sometimes use shorter primary regulator hoses, an acceptable practice in this environment. Obviously, such an event is only for emergencies. Divers ascending from SCUBA on a breath-hold must exhale during the ascent to prevent embolism. This technique should be practiced and discussed during open water training.

Power inflator hoses should run over the diver's left shoulder and be long enough to comfortably supply the power inflator, while not so long that they bulge out to either side. In turn, the inflator itself should be long enough that, with one hand controlling all maneuvers, a diver is able to easily reach his/her mouth, his/her dry suit inflation valve, and his/her nose; it should also be long enough that, if necessary, one could breathe out of it by simultaneously holding down both buttons.13 The inflator from the wings runs over the shoulder and through a small bungie attached with the left chest D-ring. This keeps the inflator where it can be located instantly. To provide additional redundancy when using two first stages, the inflator hose should always be run from the right post. This requirement is illustrated in the case of a diver's left post rolling off or breaking. If the inflator is run from the left post, the diver will simultaneously lose not only the use of the backup regulator around the neck but also the ability to inflate the BC. These two problems together could be inordinately compounded by an out-of-air situation in which a diver would not only be without the means of controlling his/her buoyancy but would also be deprived of the use of a third regulator (cf. note 7). In addition, the inflator mechanism itself should not be designed to fill rapidly; this allows one to manage a runaway inflation more effectively, should an inflator failure cause a continual addition of air. The pressure gauge hose should run from the diver's left post to the left hip D-ring, where it is attached by a stainless steel clip wire-tied to the pressure gauge. This pressure gauge does not need a protective boot, nor does it need to be in a console or in any other device that increases its size and/or entanglement potential. The hose should be short enough to stay out of the slipstream and long enough to allow for viewing of the gauge once it is unclipped from the D-ring.

Regulator Configuration

Diving With One First Stage

Shallow, open water divers often use one first stage attached to a single tank. With a single regulator, the two-second stages come over the diver's right shoulder while the pressure gauge and power inflator run to the left.

Diving With Two First Stages

Divers use double tanks for technical diving not only because they seek to increase their available air supply, but also because they understand the safety margin provided by redundancy. Therefore, the use of double tanks usually indicates deeper or overhead diving. Both single tank diver and double tank diver systems require the following configuration. Open water divers using a single tank should assume that all necessary hoses run from one first stage. In a doubles configuration, the primary second stage regulator is attached via a long hose to a first stage that is affixed to the diver's right post (right shoulder). This configuration not only ensures redundancy, but also facilitates gas sharing. The long hose runs straight down behind the wing, under the light canister (if one is worn, if not it is routed around the knife, or tucked into the belt), back up the left side, and around the neck; the attached second stage is then placed in one's mouth and breathed. During an emergency air-sharing episode, divers will have to unclip this regulator to pass it to an out-of-air diver. While using stage or deco bottles, donors should pass the regulator in their mouth (stage or deco) and then deploy the long hose. Should the out-of-air diver need additional decompression gas, the divers will likely take turns using the bottle (such as five minutes each) or buddy-breathe. Out-of-air divers should also be practiced in going directly to the long hose, and be able to breathe from it while it is still clipped off, deploying it later without assistance. Divers must also practice quickly deploying the long hose in a variety of situations.

Divers should NEVER put their primary regulator on the left post because they risk a post roll off during contact with an overhead. Furthermore, severe contact might cause this knob to be severed in the off position, leaving the diver without a long hose in case of an emergency. Placing the long hose on the diver's right post means that the post can only be rolled open, and, in the case of a broken knob, will still be usable (both knobs turn clockwise but are on opposing sides). As with any new technique, divers may notice an early learning curve. However, a couple of dives should be sufficient for them to become proficient in managing a long hose. Whenever it is not in use divers should become habituated to clipping off their long hose to their right D-ring. While diving, hoses generally float and sit comfortably against one's body. Since, for purposes of gas exchange and general good form a diver should always be in a supine position, this long hose will usually be held in place against the body.

Does the Long Hose Decrease Regulator Performance?

Regulators can easily supply air through a long hose without registering any notable drop in breathing performance. If there is any reduction in regulator performance when using the long hose, it is negligible, and in all but the lowest performance regulators, not even a noteworthy concern. If being attached to a long hose diminishes a regulator's performance, then the regulator itself is not suitable for normal diving use.

Gauges

Historically, divers have been led to believe that consolidating an array of gauges into one bulky console and then dragging that console along behind them was somehow a sensible and responsible practice. Not true. By dragging a bulky console behind them, divers not only kill whatever coral they come in contact with, they also risk entanglement. Instead, divers should wear their depth gauge and compass on their wrist or forearm. In the ocean, a compass is of paramount importance, and, without interfering with other activities, needs to be viewable and held in its correct orientation on the left hand. The bottom timer/depth gauge needs to be viewable at all times and should be placed on the right hand.

Hope this helps!
 
50Fathom: It helps a lot, I can't believe I didn't find all this on their website, thanks for taking the time for both your post and reposting the GUE standards!

Michael
 
Hey, if you want to ditch those Posiden regs... I'll pay shipping to Hawaii!

Michael
 
Hey, if you want to ditch those Posiden regs... I'll pay shipping to Hawaii!

Michael

LOL, I said they were going bye-bye, not "given away!" LOL! :wink:

They're all "for sale", and if you're interested, let's talk. XStreams, Jetstreams, Cyklons, I got 'em all. I got prices set, but I'm negotiable and fair. I'm not out to screw the buyer, but I'm also not out to screw myself.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/
http://cavediveflorida.com/Rum_House.htm

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