Dive Accident - Great Escape 9/17?

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This is very sad news indeed. I talked with local law enforcement/water rescue at the Scuba Show in Long Beach just before I returned to Germany and at that time they were unaware of any rebreather diving fatalities in SoCal. My condolences to the family and friends of the victim.

Divmstr223:
I know absolutely zero about rebreathers....but the article said that when he first looked at the rebreather (after the accident on the boat), it was reading 2.01 or something like that. The last time he looked at it, it read 2.43. He said that it was increasing and had a scrubber faillure.
The display on the Vision equiped Inspiration shows a bunch of data, I enclosed a picture of them below.

002.jpg


The small number on the top left is the setpoint, 0.7 ata. That means that the unit is set to keep the partial pressure of oxygen at that level. CCRs mix pure O2 with a diluent, for recreational depth limits usually air. I doubt that this was the number remebered, small as it is, and as mentioned, it can't be set to 2+ ata in the first place.

Partial pressure of air at the surface is about 0.21 (about 21% O2 at 1 ata). Pure O2 hence has a pp of 1.0 (100% at 1 ata). Hence the loop content at the surface could not have been 2.43 ata unless the loop was overpressured to 2.43 ata, as padiscubapro explained. Aside from the overpressure valve, if the loop had been overpressured the diver would not have drowned. The counterlungs are located over the shoulders abd down the chest and would have provided plenty of bouyancy.

In the picture (taken at a dive show) the three large numbers across the center are the actual readings from the three O2 sensors, 0.94 and 0.95 ata. Those numbers change with depth (ambient pressure) and O2 content in the bag.


Now, as I stated above, I know zero about rebreathers. Can someone break it down for me as to what an O2 level of 2.0 , 2.43 means??
It's the partial pressure of oxygen in the loop, the product of ambient pressure multiplied by the % of oxygen of the gas. For example, air has 21% O2, so at the surface the ppO2 would be 0.21 ata. When you dive to 10m, the ambient pressure increases by 1ata, so ppO2 would be 0.42 ata. For Nitrox32 those two numbers would be 0.32 ata and 0.64 ata, for pure O2 they would be 1.0 ata and 2.0 ata, respectively.

By mixing the O2 with the diluent during the dive, the ppO stays at a preset level, the setpoint. Close to the surface it's 0.7 ata as in the picture, during the dive it can be set by the diver to a higher value, 1.0 - 1.3 ata are common. O2 is added as needed to keep the setpoint, diluent is added to maintain the volume of gas in the loop (like you would to your BCD on descent).

So who knows what level it was at during the time the diver had problems.
If the unit was indeed equiped with Vision electronics the data is recorded and downloadable, much like deco computers, with additional info like the loop's ppO2.

and what a scrubber is for?
It chemically binds the CO2 that is generated when O2 is metabolized, thus removing it from the loop. CO2 becomes highly toxic at higher partial pressure.

So does O2, as Jason pointed out. Elevated partial pressure of nitrogen narks people.


Seuss:
Flooded loop, failed BCD, etc...
That's a lot of failures. The loop can be drained to quite some extend, both uw and at the surface. In an OOG situation both can be inflated manually. Due to the large gas volume most RB divers need to carry more lead than OC divers. Dumping that would be easier and quicker than dumping the entire rig.

Which makes me agree with MHK, a buddy could have most likely done some good keeping a panicked or injured diver at the surface. Assist dropping weights, inflating BCD and/or loop, doff the unit, keep him afloat till help arrives. Unless it was an uncontrolled ascent and he would have stayed behind, making a controlled one. Even then, from 70' he would have probably reached the surface in time.
 
almitywife:
hmmmm - this is so not what i was told by a CCR importer the other night..... very interesting. thanks

What CCR? It's my understanding that not all units have a "crossover" class.
 
Perrone, unless i misunderstood and i dont think i did as i just asked someone that was in the same room at the time, im of the understanding that if im a current inspo diver a short bridging course will get me certified for the DR O2ptima

well im glad to hear that some makers are more strict on this - hubby going to decide which rebreather to buy in the next few months (prism looking a leader at the moment) so im only now starting to pay attention to the equipment

cheers
 
Ok,

I know you can cross over to the KISS and the Meg (at least you could last fall), and you cannot crossover onto thhe Ouroboros. I'll find out about the Optima tonight, unless someone knows for sure.

I don't know anything about the Prism.
 
Crossover Training is offered by most agencies. AfaIk they all require a minimum of hours on the old unit, might be something like 50 hrs or so. So someone who has taken a class on one unit, ended up not buying/diving it, and then decides on another unit won't be able to cross over.

The difference to a normal CCR class is that much of the basic material that is part of all classes is usually just reviewed briefly. The history part, dangers, what a rebreather is etc. Some credit may be given during the practical part, too, from what I understand. A skilled and experienced CCR diver will have an easier time adjusting to a different unit than a diver new to RB from OC. It's mostly about navigating the unit, getting the motor skills down. On one model the manual O2 addition button may be on the side and bottom of the left counterlung, on another on the front bottom of the right, on yet another in the back on the unit. That sort of thing.

From a SC unit (like the Dolphin) it's a bigger step, different working principle, different theory, different unit. The class is probably pretty close to a normal one anyway.

While it's off the thread topic, for the PRISM crossover training (at least from other CCRs) is available when skill and experience requirements are met. For details the instructor (Luke Nelson in Oz) or agency as well as the manufacturer will be able to provide more info.
 
almitywife:
no offence but you SHOULDNT be told a thing about whats going on while a investiagation is taking place and before the findings are released

i hope your "friend" is reminded of their duty to the deceased and the law in this case

None taken. There's nothing in the nature of our discussions that violates any ethical, moral or legal issues. . . and they certainly don't come near the level of specualtion, second guessing and supposition that I see in these threads at times.
 
Thank you so much for that explination caveseeker7, although I don't "get" all of it definately makes more sense.
 
Chuck Tribolet:
Does it do 24 hour time only? The accident happened in the early afternoon (death
declared at 1:56 p.m. IIRC), maybe it was 12-hour time and only off a few minutes.


I dont know about the current software but earlier software only had a 24 hour mode... but if the diver left the batteries out for over 4 hours the clock would have been invalid and as soon as the unit powered up it would have requested the time be set.. some people are lazy and will just setit the fastest way possible,,,
 
caveseeker7:
While it's off the thread topic, for the PRISM crossover training (at least from other CCRs) is available when skill and experience requirements are met. For details the instructor (Luke Nelson in Oz) or agency as well as the manufacturer will be able to provide more info.
thanks Caveseeker, we've already been in conact with Luke (seems to be a nice guy, easy to contact and prompt to reply) as well as the Prism oz distributor.as hubby not certified for any rebreather yet he will be doing the full training course for whatever he chooses and not the crossover

oh, and happy birthday for Saturday - youre not a troll by the name of Bazza are you??? :D
 
almitywife:
oh, and happy birthday for Saturday - youre not a troll by the name of Bazza are you??? :D
:rofl3: No, that I'm certainly not. :rofl3:
And I won't tell Barry you suggested it lest he throw you in the back of cave. :D
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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