Dive insurance questions...

[Octopusprime]

I am working on going pro and one area that gets confusing is the Padi insurance. My brother and I should be finishing our DM by May 2015. It is hard to get info until you have your DM or higher on the insurance. It looks like each instructor needs insurance despite the fact we are an incorporated business.

What should we expect insurance costs to be?

Looks like dive shops and resorts can be a Padi pro but then are instructors employees or still 1099 contractors?

Does the insurance continue to multiply or at sometime does it scale back like because my sister is also going to go pro but the insurance seams to get a little crazy?

Does it matter if you have equipment? Rentals etc?

 

[clint@uniquescuba.com]

I'm not a PADI dude but from my experience with Dive Industry Insurance you have a few options.

1. Instructor Liability Insurance
2. Dive Shop Insurance

My personal liability insurance is under $700 per year... it's required and it's worth every penny.


My personal suggestion if you are teaching a PADI program, get insured by the PADI insurance syndicate to avoid a Tuvell case situation.

 

[The Chairman]

J'm not so sure that it makes a difference, Clint. Making matters worse, one of the big players, Willis, just bowed out of the circus.

 

[clint@uniquescuba.com]

Just my opinion and speculation - When studying the facts and events of the Tuvell case, I don't believe PADI would have secretly kept themselves in the case after settling fully with the plaintiff if the Instructor and Dive Shop had been insured by PADI as well.

In the situation of this case however, since it was a PADI instructor teaching a PADI program, but insured by Willis... well, I think PADI see's an opportunity to stay involved in the case to help the plaintiff win a larger settlement against the instructor and shop (who are insured by Willis - a PADI competitor).

This could financially deliver a devastating blow to Willis. (And one reason why I believe they have dropped us)

So, my suggestion to keep your insurance policy inside the PADI family if you are teaching a PADI program would be a legitimate point

 

[The Chairman]

You don't think they learned their lesson about this? They were pretty heavily fined.

 

[Wookie]

You don't think they learned their lesson about this? They were pretty heavily fined.

2 grand? I waste that on helium.

I am diligently searching for an alternative to all of the crap certification agencies in the USA. I believe in my heart of hearts that Willis was actively trying to reform the scuba industry by lowering DSD ratios, by holding seminars for boat owners, pool owners, shop owners, by sponsoring Diving and the Law seminars at DEMA so those of us who were insured could learn from the mistakes of others.

Meanwhile PADI was just as diligently trying to continue to lower the standards of the "industry" as a whole, and thwarted Willis and their agent at every turn. PADI has expelled members who find themselves in lawsuits just for being sued. The Tuvell case is one, the Splash case is another. Follow standards and have a fatality and be expelled, because if the problem is that the instructor followed standards, well then, it must be the instructor to student ratios that are at fault, not the instructor teaching to those ratios. PADI well knows that an instructor, whether independent or shop sponsored, can't make an honest living teaching scuba at anything less than the maximum allowable ratios, yet we keep hearing "Go Pro", because that's what it's really where the profits are made, in making instructors, getting their membership fees, skimming off their insurance, then dumping them when they need some support.

I guess PADI is no longer with Vincencia and Buckley, they have someone new called HUB. Same snakes, different skin. I, for one, wouldn't use PADI's insurance agency if they were the only one's left. I will be switching from Willis to Witherspoon at renewal time, unless someone else enters the game. If Witherspoon gets out of the business, so will I.

 

[clint@uniquescuba.com]

I don't think $2,000 is that big of a fine. It's more the sanctions being issued that sent the message

---------- Post added September 15th, 2014 at 11:14 AM ----------

I switched to Witherspoon last week.

 

[Octopusprime]

Thanks for the info... I will have to look up case... As far as the insurance goes I was planning on going the Padi route.

so when I get to DM what should I expect for cost? Will it change when I make instructor?
If both me and my brother in law insure the dive business together can we consolidate costs?

 

[clint@uniquescuba.com]

Usually Divemaster and Instructor are two different prices

 

[Skooter]

I don't have rates at hand to confirm but if my memory serves me somewhat close you can expect to spend $350-$400 per year for divemaster liability insurance. That goes up to @ $700 per year for an instructor. Of course those are independent dive leader rates if you can get a group liability policy (dive shop, etc) it will be less.