Dive Trip/Travel Insurance?

[outofofficebrb]

I have experience with both issues:
1) My insurance company is very clear that they need receipts that detail the amount of money you spent on any claimed item. Missed a dive on a LOB? Then I need to produce a receipt for the cost of THAT dive. Oops, a LOB is an All Inclusive. How much does a dive cost? In order to make a claim you need a receipt from the LOB operator for the cost of a dive.

The issue is that the insurance company needs a third party (not you!) to establish the free market price of the service that was not provided to you.

2) My insurance company covers all trip interruptions for any reason. BUT: once again they will only pay (up to their daily limits for interruptions) based upon my submitted receipts. Note that trip interruption insurance is not about paying you for things you missed - it is about paying for things that allow you to continue your trip (or get home).

A simple example is you are on a cruise ship and slip and fall and smack your melon. You get sent to the local island hospital and the cruise ship leaves without you. My trip interruption insurance will fly me to the next island the next day to catch up with the cruise ship. They will not pay for my missed supper, but will pay for any meal that I can provide a receipt for (up to their daily limits).

Hi, @giffenk. I believe you were the same poster in another thread that mentioned their Ontario insurance product covering anything and everything for interruption and cancelltion. I read the fine print and posted my findings in the other thread weeks ago but I will post it here below as well regarding your insurance company covering any and all trip interruptions for any reason. I've added a few extra points.

I don't know if you have read my policy coverage but in the case of diving as it pertains to liveaboards or day trips, my policy would cover me for the missed dives if they have been pre-paid for and non-refundable.

---------

This is an "example policy" that they have under "Travel Insurance 101". https://on.bluecross.ca/images/docs/Ont_Sample_Policy-en.pdf

For trip cancellation or interruption benefit, "The Insurer shall pay the benefits specified below, subject to the definitions, limitations, conditions, exclusions and reductions of coverage of this contract, in the case of an accident, illness or other unforeseen fortuitous event that is beyond the control of the covered person or traveling companion. The event must be sufficiently serious, directly affect the covered person or the travelling companion and require that the trip be cancelled, interrupted, extended or modified." We could argue someone with DCS on the boat and having to cancel/interrupt the trip to get them to a chamber directly affects the covered person in that their trip is cancelled/interrupted. Or....do they mean the insured person and/or traveling companion must actually be in an accident or have an illness or unforeseen fortuitous event themselves?

Their definition of an illness means "a deterioration in health or an organism disorder certified by a physician. In the case of trip cancellation, this deterioration or disorder must be serious enough to prevent the covered person from continuing his trip as planned. Pregnancy is not considered to be an illness, except in the case of pathlogical complications arising within the first 32 weeks." Their definition of "Accident" means "unintentional, sudden, fortuitous and unforeseeable event due exclusively to an external cause of a violent nature and inflicting, directly and independently of all other causes, bodily injuries during the period of coverage". This suggests that the bodily injuries must be directly to the insured/covered person or traveling companion and would not apply if someone else had an accident.

As expected, there are pre-existing conditions exclusion as well. A lot of good questions when you read the fine print. Depending on the answer to the few points above, what is actually covered or not covered can change quite a bit. It may not necessarily be any and all reasons as you mention.

 

[Damselfish]

the trick of course, is that you would never have gone on the liveaboard if you weren't going to dive. But oh well.

I seem to remember being on a liveaboard once that had a non-diver price listed for the cruise. But the difference was piddling. Of course, it doesn't really cost them any more to handle one more diver and I figure it was a token to encourage diver/non-diver pair to feel better about coming.

 

[outofofficebrb]

the trick of course, is that you would never have gone on the liveaboard if you weren't going to dive. But oh well.

I seem to remember being on a liveaboard once that had a non-diver price listed for the cruise. But the difference was piddling. Of course, it doesn't really cost them any more to handle one more diver and I figure it was a token to encourage diver/non-diver pair to feel better about coming.

Do you mean if you are unwell and unable to dive, to just skip the liveaboard and try to claim that amount back? There is a lot of fine print that would limit or prevent that from being successful. Either maximum per day or maximum per trip which would probably not end up in recuperation of the entire cost of the liveaboard. You would also have to have a covered reason that you can document that is within their parameters.

I have booked 8 liveaboards so far and have seen a non-diver price for all of them. If it wasn't published, it was slightly discounted (hardly, as you mention) upon request for a quote.

 

[Damselfish]

Do you mean if you are unwell and unable to dive, to just skip the liveaboard and try to claim that amount back? There is a lot of fine print that would limit or prevent that from being successful. Either maximum per day or maximum per trip which would probably not end up in recuperation of the entire cost of the liveaboard. You would also have to have a covered reason that you can document that is within their parameters.

No I wasn't suggesting trying that, I'm sure it wouldn't work. Was more of a statement of the obvious, why the whole situation kinda sucks if it happens, even if you could get a fair price set on the dives.

 

[KeithG]

Hi, @giffenk. I believe you were the same poster in another thread that mentioned their Ontario insurance product covering anything and everything for interruption and cancelltion. I read the fine print and posted my findings in the other thread weeks ago but I will post it here below as well regarding your insurance company covering any and all trip interruptions for any reason. I've added a few extra points.

I don't know if you have read my policy coverage but in the case of diving as it pertains to liveaboards or day trips, my policy would cover me for the missed dives if they have been pre-paid for and non-refundable.

---------

This is an "example policy" that they have under "Travel Insurance 101". https://on.bluecross.ca/images/docs/Ont_Sample_Policy-en.pdf

For trip cancellation or interruption benefit, "The Insurer shall pay the benefits specified below, subject to the definitions, limitations, conditions, exclusions and reductions of coverage of this contract, in the case of an accident, illness or other unforeseen fortuitous event that is beyond the control of the covered person or traveling companion. The event must be sufficiently serious, directly affect the covered person or the travelling companion and require that the trip be cancelled, interrupted, extended or modified." We could argue someone with DCS on the boat and having to cancel/interrupt the trip to get them to a chamber directly affects the covered person in that their trip is cancelled/interrupted. Or....do they mean the insured person and/or traveling companion must actually be in an accident or have an illness or unforeseen fortuitous event themselves?

Their definition of an illness means "a deterioration in health or an organism disorder certified by a physician. In the case of trip cancellation, this deterioration or disorder must be serious enough to prevent the covered person from continuing his trip as planned. Pregnancy is not considered to be an illness, except in the case of pathlogical complications arising within the first 32 weeks." Their definition of "Accident" means "unintentional, sudden, fortuitous and unforeseeable event due exclusively to an external cause of a violent nature and inflicting, directly and independently of all other causes, bodily injuries during the period of coverage". This suggests that the bodily injuries must be directly to the insured/covered person or traveling companion and would not apply if someone else had an accident.

As expected, there are pre-existing conditions exclusion as well. A lot of good questions when you read the fine print. Depending on the answer to the few points above, what is actually covered or not covered can change quite a bit. It may not necessarily be any and all reasons as you mention.

Good points.

The above conditions trigger trip interruption / cancellation due to the insureds inability to continue. The travel supplier is still good to go, but I am not. If I fall and break my leg, then I can not continue the trip. If I am just having a bad hair day and want to go home early then they will not cover me. The above distinguishes between broken leg and bad hair day.

Trip interuption or cancellation due to the travel supplier having issues is a different situation. If the travel supplier defaults for any reason I am covered. They could default because someone else had an accident and the LOB headed back to dock early. Or due to a storm. Or the captn wanting to get back early for a daughters birthday party. Or maybe your plane broke down. Or maybe your plane's flight crew ran out of shift time (we got an extra night in Boston due to delays that ran the flight crew off the clock).

We have experienced flight delays in getting home multiple times that caused an extra over night stay (or 3 days once). Our allowable out of pocket expenses ( up to the daily maximum) were covered. The insurance company does not ask the root cause of the delay, they just want proof that we paid for the original flight, that it was cancelled and that we were issued new tickets requiring an over night stay.

It would be really nice if insurance policies could be written in plain English in a couple of paragraphs.

 

[Crystal A.]

The more I read the more confused I get. We used airline miles to purchase our flights, and I am told that they are not insurable. If we have a minimum 3 hour delay to qualify for trip delay benefits, we miss our boat and are SOL. Does anyone have any advise for insuring tight connections and flights purchased with miles?

 

[KeithG]

The more I read the more confused I get. We used airline miles to purchase our flights, and I am told that they are not insurable. If we have a minimum 3 hour delay to qualify for trip delay benefits, we miss our boat and are SOL. Does anyone have any advise for insuring tight connections and flights purchased with miles?

You may be mixing 2 closely related but different concepts? Flight non-delivery (cancellation) vs trip interruption.

1) Your airline miles are not insurable in case of a cancellation. Since you did not pay hard cash for the flights, no insurance company will give you back cash if the flights never happen. You paid nothing for the flights hence the flights cannot be insured. Insurance companies are not in business to benefit you by converting airline miles into cash in your pocket. You are left to fight with the airline to get your miles back if the flights never happen. So when someone told you the miles flight is not insurable this is likely what they meant: cancellation, not interruption.

2) Trip interruption is a different issue. Trip interruption insurance will not care how you paid for any parts of the trip since they are not refunding you the cost the trip, they are helping you to continue the trip.

What type of interruption are you worried about: Plane to plane or plane to boat?
What does your insurance product cover?
Can you provide more details about the "3 hour delay"?

 

[outofofficebrb]

@giffenk brings up a good point. look into the fine print and find out what that covers. Some cover accommodations, food, transportation until the travel continues. Then there is the part of coverage that pays for you to “catch up” if you miss a connection. As an example, you miss your connecting flight and next flight on airline with space won’t work time wise because boat will be gone so you need to buy a new ticket to arrive before then It’s covered up to a max amount.

With that said, avoiding tight connections is key - on liveaboard trips, about 3 hours is my golden layover time. Then I pad arrival by a day so that if worst case scenario I need to take tomorrow’s flight and there’s nothing available before it, I have wiggle room. I know you may not have had any option but wanted to share my practices.

 

[Lorenzoid]

As an example, you miss your connecting flight and next flight on airline with space won’t work time wise because boat will be gone so you need to buy a new ticket to arrive before then It’s covered up to a max amount.

I'm guessing that's true only with your super-duper Liveaboard Rider from DiveAssure? If my understanding is correct, insuring against "missing the boat" is a special case of trip interruption insurance, not typical trip interruption insurance. As I understand it, typical trip interruption insurance doesn't compensate you for costs you incur in proactively preventing yourself from missing a further leg of your trip due to the interruption. Am I correct? They only insure that when you eventually get to your final destination, you are compensated for any costs due to the interruption. (Unfortunately, "eventually" isn't good enough for a liveaboard.)

As I understand it, typical trip interruption insurance pays for incidental things like accommodations, food, and local transportation until your travel resumes. So, for example, if I arrive in Los Angeles and my Fiji Airways flight is canceled, then my insurance pays for whatever incidental costs Fiji Airways may not compensate me for. Since most airlines book you on the next flight out (potentially too late for your liveaboard) and provide some compensation for incidentals, including overnight lodging in some cases, I would think it unlikely that I would need to make a travel insurance claim for trip interruption costs. I mean, is it really worthwhile to insure myself against having to buy myself dinner and breakfast at the airport, or for that matter, even overnight lodging, since I typically choose some cheap motel by the airport? If I understand correctly, typical trip interruption insurance would not compensate me for the cost of booking an earlier flight on another airline (to avoid missing my liveaboard) if Fiji Airways offers to put me on their next flight (despite it causing me to miss my liveaboard). Is that correct? To state it another way, as I understand it, typical trip interruption insurance doesn't insure against the timing of my trip deviating from what I booked, only against me having to spend additional money to eventually reach my destination.

P.S. For what it's worth, I have not yet bought travel insurance for the upcoming Fiji trip, but I did pad my arrival by TWO days. Still ambivalent about travel insurance.

 

[KeithG]

@giffenk brings up a good point. look into the fine print and find out what that covers. Some cover accommodations, food, transportation until the travel continues. Then there is the part of coverage that pays for you to “catch up” if you miss a connection. As an example, you miss your connecting flight and next flight on airline with space won’t work time wise because boat will be gone so you need to buy a new ticket to arrive before then It’s covered up to a max amount.

With that said, avoiding tight connections is key - on liveaboard trips, about 3 hours is my golden layover time. Then I pad arrival by a day so that if worst case scenario I need to take tomorrow’s flight and there’s nothing available before it, I have wiggle room. I know you may not have had any option but wanted to share my practices.

Agreed. The key with airline connections is to make sure you leave enough room for connections - or at least have someone else to blame for missed short connections?

Where ever possible we always book multiple flights under a single ticket. That way there is no discussion with your insurance about whose fault it is, err , I mean if it is an insurable event versus user stupidity. I believe my trip insurance provider has some hand waving about ME being responsible for showing up "on time" for flights and boats and trains and things (regardless of weather conditions). "on time" is loosely defined as following the guidelines of the travel provider you are using. So if it snows and it takes me 2 hours to get to YVR instead of the normal 20 minutes and I miss a flight because I arrived late at the airport and found a huge line up, then I am screwed. It was all my fault. If I show up on time but my flight leaves 2 hours late because the airport baggage system is bork'd, then I am golden. Make sure you document the reason for your delay.

In this world booking multiple flights under a single ticket becomes a no brainer since the booking agency has defined and guaranteed that you meet the "on time" policy for connections. It's not my fault!

Similarly, if you are meeting a LOB after a flight(s), my insurance policy needs me to be aware of the LOB's policy about arriving "on time". In general this one is not really relevant since a missed flight generally means we will miss the LOB by at least a day. Many people react to this possibility by going a day early.

BUT: Going a day early is not a totally fool proof solution (I still think it is a good idea to relieve stress and stretch your vacation a bit). The only LOB we have missed was one we cleverly scheduled to go a day early. The storm also happened a day early, at Christmas. The next day weather was great and all flights where fine. But because it was Christmas there were no seats available to rebook us. We got bumped 2 days. We contacted the LOB and advised them we would be 1 day late - no worries, they arranged a water taxi. We then called our insurance explained our problem and got immediate approval to proceed. It was all good - 1 day of missed diving but I was still a happy camper since it could have been a missed week of diving.