Dive Trip/Travel Insurance?

[KeithG]

I'm guessing that's true only with your super-duper Liveaboard Rider from DiveAssure? If my understanding is correct, insuring against "missing the boat" is a special case of trip interruption insurance, not typical trip interruption insurance. As I understand it, typical trip interruption insurance doesn't compensate you for costs you incur in proactively preventing yourself from missing a further leg of your trip due to the interruption. Am I correct? They only insure that when you eventually get to your final destination, you are compensated for any costs due to the interruption. (Unfortunately, "eventually" isn't good enough for a liveaboard.)

As I understand it, typical trip interruption insurance pays for incidental things like accommodations, food, and local transportation until your travel resumes. So, for example, if I arrive in Los Angeles and my Fiji Airways flight is canceled, then my insurance pays for whatever incidental costs Fiji Airways may not compensate me for. Since most airlines book you on the next flight out (potentially too late for your liveaboard) and provide some compensation for incidentals, including overnight lodging in some cases, I would think it unlikely that I would need to make a travel insurance claim for trip interruption costs. I mean, is it really worthwhile to insure myself against having to buy myself dinner and breakfast at the airport, or for that matter, even overnight lodging, since I typically choose some cheap motel by the airport? If I understand correctly, typical trip interruption insurance would not compensate me for the cost of booking an earlier flight on another airline (to avoid missing my liveaboard) if Fiji Airways offers to put me on their next flight (despite it causing me to miss my liveaboard). Is that correct? To state it another way, as I understand it, typical trip interruption insurance doesn't insure against the timing of my trip deviating from what I booked, only against me having to spend additional money to eventually reach my destination.

P.S. For what it's worth, I have not yet bought travel insurance for the upcoming Fiji trip, but I did pad my arrival by TWO days. Still ambivalent about travel insurance.

Good point. I need to brush up a bit in this area. There are several different items here that I do not fully understand (I have a note to call my insurance provider).

Under trip interruption there is clearly the very limited benefit of a "daily allowance" that is designed to cover the costs of daily living when you get delayed. My policy is $300CDN per person (so we have $600 a day to piss away on their dime).

There is generally also the benefit of spending $$ to allow you to resume your trip - i.e. to catch up to your cruise ship at the next port. My policy has a section about "Additional Transportation Costs" which talks about the "most economical transportation" to the destination or back to the departure point (i.e. catch the ship or go home).

As @Lorenzoid pointed out this coverage may not be pre-emptive and may not cover rebooking on an earlier flight in order to avoid a delay. My policy provides full coverage to "catch-up" or "go home". They paid for a very expensive water taxi to catch up to a LOB so that we could continue our trip 1 day late after a flight delay.

 

[KeithG]

Since most airlines book you on the next flight out (potentially too late for your liveaboard) and provide some compensation for incidentals, including overnight lodging in some cases, I would think it unlikely that I would need to make a travel insurance claim for trip interruption costs. I mean, is it really worthwhile to insure myself against having to buy myself dinner and breakfast at the airport, or for that matter, even overnight lodging, since I typically choose some cheap motel by the airport?

Be aware that airlines do not routinely provide over night accommodation. It all depends upon why they screwed you. They have their own rules.

We have been compensated exactly once in 5 times (once was a 3 day delay). The single compensated delay was due to an Air France plane crashing at YVR while we were in-flight to Toronto - our plane turned mid flight and went back to Miami. The free hotel sucked. Every other time (including last week) we were on our own for any expenses related to the delay.

In all of these cases we utilized our annual trip insurance and stayed at a nice hotel and had a nice meal or two...

 

[Lorenzoid]

. . .
There is generally also the benefit of spending $$ to allow you to resume your trip - i.e. to catch up to your cruise ship at the next port. My policy has a section about "Additional Transportation Costs" which talks about the "most economical transportation" to the destination or back to the departure point (i.e. catch the ship or go home).

That's an interesting point I did not consider. My assumption was that trip interruption insurance is for insuring against unanticipated costs in arriving at the liveaboard's port of embarkation due to delay of the (presumably air) carrier I booked to get me there. In other words, I have not been thinking of the liveaboard's then-current position on the sea as being the "destination"; rather, I have been thinking of the liveaboard's port of embarkation as the "destination." Is there fine print defining "destination"?

Do you think your insurance would cover a helicopter to get you to the middle of the ocean, assuming such is available and the ship would agree to receive you? Just curious. That could cost many times the cost of the cruise! Or is the "most economical transportation" subject to a cap?

. . . As @Lorenzoid pointed out this coverage may not be pre-emptive and may not cover rebooking on an earlier flight in order to avoid a delay. My policy provides full coverage to "catch-up" or "go home". They paid for a very expensive water taxi to catch up to a LOB so that we could continue our trip 1 day late after a flight delay.

I admit not having read as much fine print as you and OOO, but your "catch up"/"go home" provision sounds like more than the typical trip interruption coverage I have seen. That sounds like the Liveaboard Rider or cruise-specific insurance. (If you Google cruise insurance, you can find discussions of policies that sound just like that Liveaboard Rider as far as catching up with a cruise ship at the next port of call.)

 

[Lorenzoid]

Be aware that airlines do not routinely provide over night accommodation. It all depends upon why they screwed you. They have their own rules.

I really couldn't care less about being compensated for hotel, meals, or whatever--those expenses are trivial compared to the cost of the dive week itself. I'm not new to sleeping on airport floors or spending $100 for a night at some cheap airport motel and an Uber to/from. Sure, some major event could cause you to be delayed by several days, but I think that's unlikely. As is always the backdrop to these discussions, the reason insurance companies are happy to take the bet is that the odds are in their favor of you not incurring major expenses due to delay.

 

[outofofficebrb]

I'm guessing that's true only with your super-duper Liveaboard Rider from DiveAssure? If my understanding is correct, insuring against "missing the boat" is a special case of trip interruption insurance, not typical trip interruption insurance. As I understand it, typical trip interruption insurance doesn't compensate you for costs you incur in proactively preventing yourself from missing a further leg of your trip due to the interruption. Am I correct? They only insure that when you eventually get to your final destination, you are compensated for any costs due to the interruption. (Unfortunately, "eventually" isn't good enough for a liveaboard.)

As I understand it, typical trip interruption insurance pays for incidental things like accommodations, food, and local transportation until your travel resumes. So, for example, if I arrive in Los Angeles and my Fiji Airways flight is canceled, then my insurance pays for whatever incidental costs Fiji Airways may not compensate me for. Since most airlines book you on the next flight out (potentially too late for your liveaboard) and provide some compensation for incidentals, including overnight lodging in some cases, I would think it unlikely that I would need to make a travel insurance claim for trip interruption costs. I mean, is it really worthwhile to insure myself against having to buy myself dinner and breakfast at the airport, or for that matter, even overnight lodging, since I typically choose some cheap motel by the airport? If I understand correctly, typical trip interruption insurance would not compensate me for the cost of booking an earlier flight on another airline (to avoid missing my liveaboard) if Fiji Airways offers to put me on their next flight (despite it causing me to miss my liveaboard). Is that correct? To state it another way, as I understand it, typical trip interruption insurance doesn't insure against the timing of my trip deviating from what I booked, only against me having to spend additional money to eventually reach my destination.

P.S. For what it's worth, I have not yet bought travel insurance for the upcoming Fiji trip, but I did pad my arrival by TWO days. Still ambivalent about travel insurance.

Hi, L! I'm digging into the fine print of DAN and Dive Assure policies...I'm thankful for ctrl+F.

@giffenk's coverage is quite good. While it does not encompass everything, it encompasses a whole lot. For us with no access to his coverage......

Dive Assure has a "Missed Departure" clause: The insurer will reimburse You up to limit specified in the Schedule of Benefits in respect of reasonable additional accommodation (room only) and travel expenses necessarily incurred to reach the overseas destination as a consequence of; strike, riot, mechanical breakdown, missed connection or inclement weather, causing interruption of scheduled public transport services (on the outward journey only); or accidental or mechanical failure involving the car in which You are travelling (provided it has been properly serviced) causing You to arrive at the international point of departure from the point of origin to commence the booked journey.

Note the "necessarily incurred to reach the overseas destination. e.g., if you are going on a Fiji trip and are going to a liveaboard, that technically only means arriving in Fiji if they are throwing you the book! This benefit maxes out at $1,000.

In addition, they also have the section you are referring to, the specific detail for the Liveaboard Rider which would cover "Missed connection resulting in missing the liveaboard" and "Missed liveaboard departure due to airline delays" - this includes the additional cost to join it. This cover is up to 90% of the trip cost or the max of the declared trip value. If you can't join it, trip cancellation coverage would apply. This makes a big difference between getting you to the destination (Fiji) up to a max of $1K vs getting you to Fiji and also catching up to the liveaboard (water taxi? extra domestic flight?) up to a max of 90%-100% of your trip coverage. Huge difference in where you end up and how much you pay out of pocket.

DAN's policy on trip interruption is as follows:

Trip Interruption Benefits: The Company will reimburse the Insured up to the Maximum Limit shown in the Schedule or Declarations Page for Trips that are interrupted due to the Unforeseen events shown above for: (a) Unused portion of non-refundable pre-paid insured Trip Cost, and (b) additional transportation expenses incurred by the Insured, either 1) to the Return Destination; or 2) from the place that the Insured left the Trip to the place that the Insured may rejoin the Trip; or (c) additional transportation expenses incurred by the Insured to reach the original Trip Destination if the Insured is delayed and leaves after the Departure Date. However, the benefit payable under (b) and (c) above will not exceed the cost of economy airfare, or the same class as the Insured’s original ticket, less any refunds paid or payable, by the most direct route..

Edited to add: Weather is also covered for deluxe and elite plans with DA up to 90% of the trip cost as part of their normal curtailment/interruption and cancellation coverage.

DAN provides this coverage as well but instead but up to 150% of trip cost. Here's the kicker! The "unforreseen events shown above" include a long list of items which also qualify for cancellation coverage. I'm only including the ones that would apply for trip interruption here: sickness, injury, financial default, weather, strike, hijacking/quarantines, terrorism, delay due to traffic accident.......Nowhere in there does it mention anything about mechanical breakdown of car/bus/plane, interruption of scheduled public transit services.....MISSED CONNECTIONS!.....That is concerning. You would not get a refund for the non-refundable portion of the pre-paid trip, additional expenses to either get back to the "Return Destination" (home), or expenses to rejoin the trip or extra cost to reach the destination unless those "unforeseen events" apply. Aiyah!


This is the first time I have looked at this policy so closely and it is very interesting.

Agreed. The key with airline connections is to make sure you leave enough room for connections - or at least have someone else to blame for missed short connections?

Where ever possible we always book multiple flights under a single ticket. That way there is no discussion with your insurance about whose fault it is, err , I mean if it is an insurable event versus user stupidity. I believe my trip insurance provider has some hand waving about ME being responsible for showing up "on time" for flights and boats and trains and things (regardless of weather conditions). "on time" is loosely defined as following the guidelines of the travel provider you are using. So if it snows and it takes me 2 hours to get to YVR instead of the normal 20 minutes and I miss a flight because I arrived late at the airport and found a huge line up, then I am screwed. It was all my fault. If I show up on time but my flight leaves 2 hours late because the airport baggage system is bork'd, then I am golden. Make sure you document the reason for your delay.

In this world booking multiple flights under a single ticket becomes a no brainer since the booking agency has defined and guaranteed that you meet the "on time" policy for connections. It's not my fault!

Similarly, if you are meeting a LOB after a flight(s), my insurance policy needs me to be aware of the LOB's policy about arriving "on time". In general this one is not really relevant since a missed flight generally means we will miss the LOB by at least a day. Many people react to this possibility by going a day early.

BUT: Going a day early is not a totally fool proof solution (I still think it is a good idea to relieve stress and stretch your vacation a bit). The only LOB we have missed was one we cleverly scheduled to go a day early. The storm also happened a day early, at Christmas. The next day weather was great and all flights where fine. But because it was Christmas there were no seats available to rebook us. We got bumped 2 days. We contacted the LOB and advised them we would be 1 day late - no worries, they arranged a water taxi. We then called our insurance explained our problem and got immediate approval to proceed. It was all good - 1 day of missed diving but I was still a happy camper since it could have been a missed week of diving.

I totally agree with @giffenk herre about booking multiple flights under a single ticket, especially if it involves an international connection. Sometimes it is tempting to not do this because it's cheaper to buy the legs separately but it can also create a nightmare. These are called "online connections" meaning you don't have to pick up your bags, go through customs, exit, and re-check yourself in again. The airline transfers your luggage for you, you don't go through customs, and you go to the transfer desk or security line. Unfortunately, there is no way around the customs bag drag when connecting in the US. In your first port of entry, you have to go through customs with your luggage and then throw them back on the conveyor belt even though it's technically an "online connection". I will, however, purchase an international ticket with stopovers on one ticket and then do separate domestic flights (as in Indonesia) but I leave a minimum of 4 hours to do this, and room to wiggle if I even miss that flight.

 

[outofofficebrb]

I had to make a 2nd post..Apparently there is a character limit! I did not know that.

Be aware that airlines do not routinely provide over night accommodation. It all depends upon why they screwed you. They have their own rules.

We have been compensated exactly once in 5 times (once was a 3 day delay). The single compensated delay was due to an Air France plane crashing at YVR while we were in-flight to Toronto - our plane turned mid flight and went back to Miami. The free hotel sucked. Every other time (including last week) we were on our own for any expenses related to the delay.

In all of these cases we utilized our annual trip insurance and stayed at a nice hotel and had a nice meal or two...

Yes - weather - they will give you a "pre-negotiated rate". If it's their fault (mechanical issue, etc.) they usually will cover it. In addition to your travel insurance coverage, do also check your credit card coverage because many of them have good coverage for accommodations and food. For bag issues and delays, they even provide an allowance you can get reimbursed for, similar to travel insurance, but they are usually less encompassing and have a few more restrictions on minimum delays and amounts you can spend per 24 hours or per incidence, etc. You can then pick your hotel up to the amount they will reimburse you for.

That's an interesting point I did not consider. My assumption was that trip interruption insurance is for insuring against unanticipated costs in arriving at the liveaboard's port of embarkation due to delay of the (presumably air) carrier I booked to get me there. In other words, I have not been thinking of the liveaboard's then-current position on the sea as being the "destination"; rather, I have been thinking of the liveaboard's port of embarkation as the "destination." Is there fine print defining "destination"?

Do you think your insurance would cover a helicopter to get you to the middle of the ocean, assuming such is available and the ship would agree to receive you? Just curious. That could cost many times the cost of the cruise! Or is the "most economical transportation" subject to a cap?



I admit not having as much fine print as you and OOO, but your "catch up"/"go home" provision sounds like more than the typical trip interruption coverage I have seen. That sounds like the Liveaboard Rider or cruise-specific insurance. (If you Google cruise insurance, you can find discussions of policies that sound just like that Liveaboard Rider as far as catching up with a cruise ship at the next port of call.)

Please see my post above about what "destination" qualifies for...Very interesting, isn't it? There are limits to how much you can claim to catch up to the trip. If you can get a heli for less than the limitations they set, it's a good argument! Do I know any heli pilots in Indonesia by chance?

 

[Crystal A.]

You may be mixing 2 closely related but different concepts? Flight non-delivery (cancellation) vs trip interruption.

1) Your airline miles are not insurable in case of a cancellation. Since you did not pay hard cash for the flights, no insurance company will give you back cash if the flights never happen. You paid nothing for the flights hence the flights cannot be insured. Insurance companies are not in business to benefit you by converting airline miles into cash in your pocket. You are left to fight with the airline to get your miles back if the flights never happen. So when someone told you the miles flight is not insurable this is likely what they meant: cancellation, not interruption.

2) Trip interruption is a different issue. Trip interruption insurance will not care how you paid for any parts of the trip since they are not refunding you the cost the trip, they are helping you to continue the trip.

What type of interruption are you worried about: Plane to plane or plane to boat?
What does your insurance product cover?
Can you provide more details about the "3 hour delay"?

Thank you for trying to help me! I sure am glad my homeowners insurance doesn't work like this, I am insured for the replacement cost of the home.

I am concerned about 1. any flight delay which would cause us to arrive late to our liveaboard thereby stranding us in the Bahamas and costing us the expense of the liveaboard + alternate arrangements 2. the liveaboard cancelling for "weather" where the "weather" is not a named storm. I was ready to buy a policy but "trip delay" only kicks in after a 3-5 hour delay, at which point we are already SOL. (not sure where I saw 3 hour delay, maybe a different product....)

The average cost of the airfares from our location to Nassau is $800-$1200. I was able to obtain flights for $200 in fees only. It seems reasonable to insure us for the value of the trip ie replacement cost.

I am only worried about plane to boat, our final flight into Nassau leaves in the morning and arrives around 1030 am, which is within the timeframe suggested by the liveaboard.

Again, thank you for trying to help me, I wish some shiny awesome trustworthy product would just appear so I could buy it and move on with my life

Travelex Trip Select looks like the most comprehensive, but this is what their policy says on Trip Delay:

Travel Delay

Travel Select
Travelex Insurance Services

• Loss or Delay
  • Travel Delay
  • $750 per person
    $250 daily limit
    Covered after 5 hour delay
• What is Travel Delay?
  
  
  
  Travel Delay provides reimbursement for meals and accommodations when a trip is unexpectedly delayed.
  
  
  
  
• What am I covered for?
  
  TRIP DELAY
  
  If Your Trip is delayed at least 5 consecutive hours from the original departure time that prevents You from reaching Your intended Destination the Company will reimburse you for only one delay per Insured, per Trip, up to the Maximum Limit shown in the Schedule. The Trip Delay benefit will cover Reasonable Additional Expenses until travel becomes possible to the originally scheduled Destination, as a result of a cancellation or delay Your Trip for one of the following Unforeseen events:
  
  a) Common Carrier delay;
  
  b) Your or a Traveling Companion have lost or had stolen, your passports,
  
  c) reasons listed under Trip Cancellation and Interruption.
  
  Reasonable Additional Expenses incurred over $25 must be accompanied by receipts.
  
  If You incur more than one delay in the same Trip the Company will reimburse You for the delay with the largest benefit up to the Maximum Limit shown in the Schedule.

 

[outofofficebrb]

Hi, @Crystal A. Since you are in the, US, I highly recommend Dive Assure. I have done a lot of fine print reading and it is very comprehensive. It isn't perfect when you break down individual parts (some other travel policies cover more either % wise or total max amount for certain things) but it is very encompassing when you look at dive specific travel coverage in the US and I have not found anything that comes close to it yet. If you read my trip interruption post that I copy and pasted from Dive Assure above, you will see that it will cover you for the plane to boat section that you are worried about and includes many things that may arise.

 

[Crystal A.]

Hi, @Crystal A. Since you are in the, US, I highly recommend Dive Assure. I have done a lot of fine print reading and it is very comprehensive. It isn't perfect when you break down individual parts (some other travel policies cover more either % wise or total max amount for certain things) but it is very encompassing when you look at dive specific travel coverage in the US and I have not found anything that comes close to it yet. If you read my trip interruption post that I copy and pasted from Dive Assure above, you will see that it will cover you for the plane to boat section that you are worried about and includes many things that may arise.

Thank you, I will have a second look, I have heard nothing but good things about them. It never even occurred to me to insure our upcoming big ticket trip to Bonaire, but the whole "cancel for weather" thing has me a bit on edge, that and we have never done a liveaboard, I usually make a mini vacation out of every transfer point, so going from airport to harbor is a bit nerve rattling too. It's going to be AWESOME!!

 

[jonhall]

I would be interested in hearing about your actual experiences with insurance reimbursements for planned dives that were lost on a trip other than a liveaboard,

It's hard to get actual experiences explained in these threads (only 2 and I'm giving ½ on another post in this thread so far) but hopefully it's because people aren't having to use their insurance. I had many questions a few years ago also as I was shopping around for dive/ trip insurance and struggled to find actual experiences, but like this thread got some good info and explanations.

And as @Crystal A. said, it can make one more confused. Obviously when traveling when diving is involved requires more than one type of insurance to cover all of the bases and yes, you have to read all of the fine print to be sure you're getting what you want.

My coverages are something like this:
* DAN family membership: through Travel Assist includes up to $100,000 for emergency evacuation/repatriation coverage for both diving and non diving medical emergencies.
* DAN dive accident insurance - purchased the Guardian level so wife was included and for the extra coverages including cancellation/interruption coverages and keeping in mind that coverages are for diving related incidences (there are a few exceptions)
* Allianz Travel Insurance - have purchased single trip when purchasing airline tickets ($27 a person.) Includes almost everything DAN trip insurance does (the Allianz annual policy does) and coverage amounts are less, but it is much cheaper. Especially, for me, since I had to go with another health insurance provider this year, I'm not covered outside the U.S. so the Allianz plan gives me a little medical coverage which is good for scuba diving as long as there is a DM and the dive is less than 130'.
Had one recent claim (my only claim to date) in January with this insurance. Ice storm delayed our flight to Phoenix by 3 hours. Missed connecting flight to Cabo by about 10 minutes. Held up hope for standby flight that didn't work out. Had to spend the night and take flight the next day. Hotel receipt and a copy of an email I requested from American Airlines stating there was a delay and we were booked on another flight, that I digitally sent to Allianz, was all that was needed to get a refund for the room. Once received, I had the check in less than 10 days. I didn't think to include our meal that evening but think it would have been covered.
* Citi credit card - as mentioned earlier, if we use miles for airline tickets, it doesn't help, but if paying full ticket price there are some nice features available including trip delay. Our main thought when traveling was to use it for car rental to get the collision coverage (when turning down the rental company.) I would call and make sure it would cover where we traveled to. The convenience is that the cost of any damage to a rental car will be charged to the credit card and you get reimbursed after the cc company gets the paperwork. We now go ahead and pay for the collision insurance as we mainly travel with friends and we split the cost of the car since we have a driver from each family.

My only other experience with trip problems was a cancellation due to the hurricanes last fall. St. Maarten was the destination and once our timeshare company determined the resort was closed we were able to get back the timeshare fees, American Airline fees refunded and miles used were reinstated, and Allianz refunded the cost of the trip insurance. Called Allianz last in case I had to try and recoup any of the other fees.

Currently looking into purchasing an annual travel policy. May go to lower level of DAN dive insurance as some of the coverages seem to overlap travel insurance (like cancellation/interruption.) Gonna keep shopping!