Diver out of air? Not really? Cozumel.

[Down2bizDiver]

In other words, it was never an OOA situation ....

The title of this thread is "Diver out of air? Not really?"

In the video subtitles and in the accompanying description I point out that when the diver takes the DM's octo the diver's reg is free flowing, while sharing air with the DM, diver purges his reg, and diver does the safety stop on his own tank. The exchange took place early in the dive. I did not see DM check diver's spg. From speaking to the diver, I am under the impression this may be the first dive he has used the BCD/reg gear that he told me he purchased used from a ScubaBoard posting. All of this together leads me to doubt the diver was low or out of air.

 

[Ayisha]

Some operators will, like the one I described earlier, send an air hog up with a buddy early. In the case I described, we were just sent up on our own to find the boat. It worked. In other cases, the DM will shoot a bag first and send the air hog and the buddy up the line before the rest of the group.

The above are approaches that I found routine in Coz and they don't affect anyone else's dive except the buddy's. Even then, usually the DM would make him/herself aware of the two people who had the lowest air and send them up together, even if they were not the original buddies. The remaining halves of the buddy teams then pair up. This is afterall, Coz, where the boats are usually drifting along following the divers bubbles ready to help divers back on whenever they surface. I find that often when the DM and a LOA diver are signalling back and forth, other people often check their gauges and someone often signals low as well and voila, there's your buddy team for the ascent. All other divers continue on.

Down2bizDiver, what you experienced is not typical at all. There were a bunch of issues going on. I would certainly avoid that operator, but if you were to try Coz again, I think you will find that most other Coz ops run way better than what you describe.

 

[Granny Scuba]

I only have 25-30 dives. One of my fears is that I will ruin the dive for everyone else.

My husband and sons have done drift dives in Coz, but I stayed w/the DILs, so I cant speak to Coz, however we did do a few drift dives off Boynton Beach.

I don’t remember the exact details....but it went something like this:
It was towards the end of the dive, everything was fine, but my husband uncharacteristically * ran low on air, so we ascended alone. We made a safety stop, he deployed an orange sausage,** we then ascended. The boat was right there, (it could be argued we didn’t even need the sausage). We got in the boat and then less than 10 minutes later the rest ascended.

My questions:
1) It is not taught in OW class - that you and your buddy should ascend and everyone else keeps diving? Of course that ruins your buddies dive, but that’s part of being a buddy.

2) Could the diver in question here have ascended with or without a buddy and just got on the boat, allowing everyone else to finish the dive? If the diver in question had ascended early with or without his buddy would this have ended the dive for everyone else?

3) Is this situation different because it was a drift dive vs an anchored rope dive?

4) Was there any pre dive instruction from the DM, that the first person running low on air was to share w/the DM? If this is a common occurrence I think it should be part of the pre-dive speech.

5) How is a drift dive suppose to end. Does everyone exit at the exact same time and in the exact location?

We are thinking about going back to Coz and I want to know proper etiquette if the situation arises.

* ended up being a brand new O-ring problem
** This was a little challenging, but we had practiced this at the Quarry.

 

[Jax]

See post #84 above if you would like to view the video.

Here is some additional information related to the dive depicted in the video:

The prior day the dive ops boat broke down, one of 2 motors quit, and we never made it to the intended dive site and instead of getting back in time for lunch we got back in time for dinner. The morning of the dive depicted, 2 of the dive ops boats were tied up at the usual spot when a Marine Police officer appeared and started checking the paperwork of all the boats at the dock. This dive op had no paperwork, for either boat. Soon, 2 backup officers appeared. Serious discussion, pleading, frantic phone calls by the crew. The owner of the boats appears. After animated discussion with the officers she retreats to her car and begins crying and pounding the steering wheel. Best I can figure, the boats were impounded. They took us in a couple of taxis to another location where both boat loads were combined onto one larger boat. Two hours after the original scheduled departure time we are finally on the way to the dive site. The DMs begin the usual preparations and ask "how much weight do you need" only to discover there are no weights on the boat necessitating more frantic cell phone calls and a U turn back to the dock. Weights now onboard we head out again. Then one of the DMs realizes he has no mask and no fins. We wait offshore while the boat with only 1 good motor brings the gear.

Finally, we get in the water. My group of 4 (plus DM) goes to 120 feet so that AOW student diver can do his skill test. Video here: YouTube - Advanced Open Water Deep Dive Skill Test - SCUBA Cozumel Soon, the events depicted in the "things go wrong" video begin.

I'm sure you're thinking that the second dive must have gone more smoothly, but sadly, no. They made us gear up and sit on the gunwale for a good 12 - 15 minutes in the blazing sun (I sunburn very easily; I hated it!) before deciding this is the spot to get wet. Into the water we go, down to the bottom but less than 2 minutes into the dive the DM frantically motions for us to immediately return to the surface, which we did, and back onto the boat ... said the current was too strong for the novice divers in the second group ... another 10 - 12 minutes sitting geared up in the blazing sun to a different dive spot ... things were OK there for the first 35 - 40 minutes when the visibility became dramatically reduced and the groups scattered so up to the surface we went ... we floated in the water for at least 15 minutes before the boat came to get us ... another dive boat came by and asked if we were in distress and if we wanted to board his boat but our DM said no. Now after 3 p.m. Since 7 a.m. breakfast all I had to eat was one banana and a piece of watermelon! Finally back to the harbor and a taxi ride to the dive shop in time for dinner.

You seem to have had a very bad time with that dive op. However, is it fair to color all Cozumel with the same crayon? I have loved diving there and the Playacar side; and BoulderJohn's description is apt.

Did you go to another dive op?

 

[Down2bizDiver]

Did you go to another dive op?

I have dived with four different ops in Cozumel in the last nine months. None employed the buddy system in any way recognizable as the system as I was taught in OW and AOW courses ... whether that system is desirable or not, or in which circumstances, is a discussion topic for a different thread.

Three of the four dive ops were, in my opinion, awful and I would never use them again. Regrettably, for a variety of reasons, the one op that I found to be satisfactory (not great, merely satisfactory) was not available to me on my most recent trip. I did switch dive ops this last trip ... the op shown in the video is the one I switched to on recommendation of a trusted source! lol

Based on my understanding of statistical analysis, when 100% of my random sample is below my standard then it is highly unlikely that another randomly selected op would meet or exceed my standard. Does that mean there is no op in Cozumel that would meet my standard? Of course not. There could be one or more excellent operators, but I'm not willing to spend anymore of my hard earned dive dollars trying to find them when I know for certain where to find excellent operators. Check out my profile to see where I have been diving in recent years ... at none of those other locations have I had dive experiences approaching those of Cozumel.

 

[Jax]

That's too bad . . . I admit, it's better to be with a buddy you know, but the group-grope diving is pretty much the way they dive there.

I hope you get a chance to return with your own buddy so you can feel better about the diving and enjoy the truly remarkable preserve.

 

[kmurray719]

I have dived with four different ops in Cozumel in the last nine months. None employed the buddy system in any way recognizable as the system as I was taught in OW and AOW courses ...

Is it your opinion that it is the dive op/DM's responsibility to ensure you use a buddy system you are comfortable with? If you're not comfortable with 'group diving', did you ask someone on the boat to be your actual buddy and employ the type of buddy system you were taught yourself? Did any of the DM's actually prevent you in any way from finding a buddy and diving as a buddy team? IMO, it is MY responsibility to dive in a way that is comfortable for me, not the dive ops responsibility to make that happen.

As for not your desire not to return to Cozumel based on your experiences, that's your choice....more space on the reefs for me

 

[Down2bizDiver]

Is it your opinion ....

I expressed no opinion. Whether the "buddy" system is desirable or not, or in what circumstances, is a discussion topic for a different thread. If you're interested in the topic there are many good articles, here is a good one to start with (you have to download it from this site): http://works.bepress.com/phyllis_coleman/1/

 

[kmurray719]

I expressed no opinion. Whether the "buddy" system is desirable or not, or in what circumstances, is a discussion topic for a different thread. If you're interested in the topic there are many good articles, here is a good one to start with (you have to download it from this site): "Scuba Diving Buddies: Rights, Obligatio" by Phyllis Coleman

No, you did not express an opinion on the merits of any particular buddy system, nor did I ask for you to. You implied that it was undesirable that all four dive ops did not employ the buddy system you were taught, and gave no other common reason for being dissatisfied with them all. I asked your opinion as to whether the ops should have facilitated you having a buddy. I was trying to determine if not assigning you a buddy was part of what you disliked about those dive ops. Not sure where you thought I was saying I wanted to discuss any type of buddy system, but thanks for digging up the information for anyone who is interested

 

[Mike]

I have dived with four different ops in Cozumel in the last nine months. None employed the buddy system in any way recognizable as the system as I was taught in OW and AOW courses ... whether that system is desirable or not, or in which circumstances, is a discussion topic for a different thread.

Three of the four dive ops were, in my opinion, awful and I would never use them again. Regrettably, for a variety of reasons, the one op that I found to be satisfactory (not great, merely satisfactory) was not available to me on my most recent trip. I did switch dive ops this last trip ... the op shown in the video is the one I switched to on recommendation of a trusted source! lol

Based on my understanding of statistical analysis, when 100% of my random sample is below my standard then it is highly unlikely that another randomly selected op would meet or exceed my standard. Does that mean there is no op in Cozumel that would meet my standard? Of course not. There could be one or more excellent operators, but I'm not willing to spend anymore of my hard earned dive dollars trying to find them when I know for certain where to find excellent operators. Check out my profile to see where I have been diving in recent years ... at none of those locations have I had dive experiences approaching those of Cozumel.

That's really something.

How are you, or should I say how did you, (since you're not going back) choose your dive ops in Cozumel?

Anybody who uses this forum and visits the Cozumel section wouldn't have a very hard time discovering the top 5 dive ops on Cozumel. Unless the diver is a complete A-hole, I'd find it virtually impossible for a diver to have anything less then a fantastic experience with one of them.

So that's why I ask, how did you make your choices? If you chose based on price shopping for the lowest prices, well I mean nobody would have to tell you how that would turn out. I don't know if you did it that way. If you simply dove with the house op depending upon where you stayed, again, that's pretty much pot luck. In Cozumel you have a great opportunity that you don't have many other places, in that you can stay at one place and dive with a completly different operator for the most part, because of the pick up at the resort dock method that goes on there.

Again I don't know how you chose your ops, but I'd find it almost impossible to go to Coz 4 times, do my research ahead of time and end up with 3 dogs for dive ops, unless there were extenations to the cirucumstances such as letting my wallet decide for me.

It's too bad you're crossing off one of the top 5 dive destinations in the caribbean. It's pretty rare to find anybody who would say anything bad about the place, let alone write it off, but their are acceptions to the rule, like how anybody could end up with 3 bad dive ops out of all the great ones that there are to choose from there, but I guess stranger things have happened.