Diving advice ? Carnival Cruise

[Linthorn]

I would also write a letter to Carnival. I'm sure Carnival would like to know that one of the companies they are subcontracting for entertainiment of THEIR guests is behaving in an unprofessional manner.

Absolutely! This is what I would do immediately. Not that it will do you any good, but many people do their first Ocean dives on the cruise ships. What happened to you will certainly happen to others. Carnival doesn't want their passengers mistreated by their contractors. Bad for business.

My first dive after cert was through Princess Cruises with an operator in Barbados. My experience was almost the exact opposite (except we did to to 80 ft). The DM took extra care to keep an eye on me and monitor my guages since I told her I was new. She made me so comfortable that my first experience was wonderful. So, they are, in fact, out there.

Anyway, write the letter to Carnival and post to Cruise Critics (www.cruisecritic.com) or a similar site. Many of us use these boards for planning, and new divers need to be treated better. I certainly do, because my vacation/diving time is precious and I can't afford to gamble.

 

[bisonduquebec]

Do they not teach proper weighting anymore when people get certified? You should know the amount of weight you used on your cert dives. Use that number as a starting point and work backwards from there.

It is not everybody that does OW certification in warm salt water . For most of new divers, ocean warm water are a first and requires some steps to find out how much weight you need. You should have been given the time to do so.

Example: I did my certification with full 7mm, gloves, hood and I needed 29 pounds. On my first dive at Cuba, I needed 10. There is no way you can figure it backwards from your OW certifcation. Nothing to compare.

No excuses for the DM and your buddy. BTW: If ear don't clear, don't push it, it will NOT get better. But I am sure your know this by now

 

[WellBelowH2O]

I started to descend slowly, cleared my ears about 4 times, and could not clear them past 60 feet

I would agree with everyone and say that you did fine for the circumstances and should chalk this up as a learning experience and dive closer to your experience level than 90'--get comfortable in the water at shallower depths before you attempt going deep. As for your ears, you should be clearing a lot more often than 4 times on the way down to 60 feet--every few feet, especially as you start your descent.

The DM's behavior, on the other hand, is inexcusable and I would definitely write a letter to the dive shop and carnival about him.

 

[1RUSTYRIG]

There is no way you can figure it backwards from your OW certifcation. Nothing to compare.

You're kidding right? So you can't figure out mathematically, based on conditions and equipment of your OW cert dives, how much weight you need (ball park) for X scenario?

I dive cold salt (Monterey, CA) in a 7 mil semi dry, the Carib in swim trunks, and local Texas fresh water in a 3 Mil full.

I am positively bouyant in both salt and fresh. Heres what I learned in my OW class 15 some years ago...

I need 7 lbs of weight to sink in salt water and 5 lbs in fresh with no gear on.

80 cu ft Alum tank is negative ~3lbs full and positive ~3lbs empty
7 Mil suit and hood needs 12lbs to counteract (based on my 2xl suit in salt)
3 Mil full suit w/o hood needs 6 lbs to counteract (based on my 2xl suit in salt)
I add 3lbs to compensate the tank on empty.

Cold Salt water dive:
7lbs starting point
3lbs tank compensation
12 lbs for the 7 mil
-----------------
22 lbs of weight

Again, this was taught in OW class. Your mileage may vary.

 

[diverkristi]

Hey guys, lighten up. New diver, and a bunch of factors really make the weight thing tricky. Salt vs fresh, no telling the difference in neoprene. Factor in a little stress.

I would try to get some satisfaction from the dive shop and copy the cruise ship on all of it, and if that doesn't work, try the cruise line and see if they'll make it right.

 

[bisonduquebec]

You're kidding right? So you can't figure out mathematically, based on conditions and equipment of your OW cert dives, how much weight you need (ball park) for X scenario?

No I can't and would not. Calculating gives you some reference point that could give you a right amount if you are lucky. What I suggest is to do some boyancy tests on the first attemps to find out what is the best # weight needed. Calculating from two extermes could give you a # of weight that is not a good match.

Also, don't forget to add steel vs alu, single vs double, 80 vs 65, etc....
I have a full page of charts of all the situations I have to dive. Believe me when I say that I tried to find a correct formula but it did not work for me.

Getting the right # of weights is not a math science. It is a matter of trying and finding out what is the best # of weights for a given equipment.

 

[dl348]

What dive operation in grand cayman was this???

 

[WellBelowH2O]

What dive operation in grand cayman was this???

From the original post: Don Fosters Diving shop in Grand Cayman.

 

[Hex]

You're kidding right? So you can't figure out mathematically, based on conditions and equipment of your OW cert dives, how much weight you need (ball park) for X scenario?

I dive cold salt (Monterey, CA) in a 7 mil semi dry, the Carib in swim trunks, and local Texas fresh water in a 3 Mil full.

I am positively bouyant in both salt and fresh. Heres what I learned in my OW class 15 some years ago...

I need 7 lbs of weight to sink in salt water and 5 lbs in fresh with no gear on.

80 cu ft Alum tank is negative ~3lbs full and positive ~3lbs empty
7 Mil suit and hood needs 12lbs to counteract (based on my 2xl suit in salt)
3 Mil full suit w/o hood needs 6 lbs to counteract (based on my 2xl suit in salt)
I add 3lbs to compensate the tank on empty.

Cold Salt water dive:
7lbs starting point
3lbs tank compensation
12 lbs for the 7 mil
-----------------
22 lbs of weight

Again, this was taught in OW class. Your mileage may vary.

I think you coming down on her about "you should know this." is the wrong approach. For one she said she was only 4 lbs. off in order to sink. Its not like she had no clue what she needed, she asked someone who is supposed to be an expert for help and didn't get it. I don't think it's ever helpful to be condescending and take an elitist attitude with a new diver.

That said I think she handled everything pretty well. She made sure that they knew she wasn't sure on the weight, and told them it was her first ocean dive. She obviously needed a little more attention than the dive master was willing to give. I don't particularly understand this because that is what he is getting paid to do. If he felt her level of training wasn't up to par for that particular dive he should have said so at the dock and not taken her. By her letting them know that she was new and needed help with weight if they couldn't handle it, they should not have accepted her payment. And any DM that berates a diver in front of an entire boat of strangers instead of pulling her aside needs to be taught some manners.

Finally I am not an expert nor do I claim to be all knowledgable. Had I been in your situation and left at the surface out of site of the group. I would have gotten back on the boat, and demanded my money back when we got back to shore. Part of this whole diving thing is comfort, and knowing your limitations. If you ever feel uncomfortable then it’s never a bad idea to abort. Maybe they give it to you maybe not, but from there you could always escalate it as others have suggested. I don't think there is any reasonable excuse to leave a diver behind like that. Definitely chalk it up as a learning experience and I hope your health is fine. Unfortunately not all lessons learned are under good circumstances.

 

[1RUSTYRIG]

Calculating gives you some reference point that could give you a right amount if you are lucky.

Maybe you and I should start our own thread rather than hijack this one

Like I said originally, you should be able to ballpark your weight for any condition since the bouyancy values for 98% of the equipment out there are known values.

I think if this diver ballparked it it would have probably closer to 15lbs.


Back to topic:
What was stated in the pre-dive briefing?
Was the topic of inability to equalize addressed?
How did sharing a computer come into play if you never saw your buddy after hitting the water?
Did you and your buddy discuss the dive before entering the water? What was your descent plan?

I don't want to sound like a jerk, but I have seen a lot individuals not pay attention to the DM or communicate with their buddy during the predive brief then ***** about it later when they were ill prepared for the dive. I would like to see more details given before a dive op and their DM is hung out to dry on the internet.