Diving the Spiegel Grove

[reefduffer]

I've only dived the Spiegel Grove once, in 2011. I may do it again, but if I do, I'll be doing it without my wife/buddy that dive. We were prepared by reading this timely thread: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/fl...e-advice-inexperienced-diver.html#post5955864 and I strongly recommend that, in addition to the advice earlier in this thread.

One thing I hadn't seen above was a suggestion to bring gloves. We have them (from San Diego) but don't usually bring them on tropical trips. However, after reading that thread, we brought them for the SG, and very glad we did. The descent/ascent and granny lines would have been a good deal less pleasant without them.

A short description of our single SG dive is in my trip report at http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/fl...report-key-largo-looe-key-7-11-7-18-11-a.html , about 1/4 way down. I'll also note that the experience was one of the reasons we both got Nautilus Lifelines as soon as they became generally available. My wife still thinks if she'd lost her grip she'd have ended up off North Carolina.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I never dove it, but are you people REALLY comfortable recommending that wreck dive (that may quite possibly) have strong currents and deep water to a person who has NEVER done an ascent in open water without a guideline? What if his butt itches just for a moment and he looses the line on ascent? Now what? Learn fast? I would be very hesitant to take someone who has never done an open water ascent on a dive like that..

 

[reefman]

I never dove it, but are you people REALLY comfortable recommending that wreck dive (that may quite possibly) have strong currents and deep water to a person who has NEVER done an ascent in open water without a guideline? What if his butt itches just for a moment and he looses the line on ascent? Now what? Learn fast? I would be very hesitant to take someone who has never done an open water ascent on a dive like that..

re-read the previous posts, no one is recommending the SG to bill. without exception the posters are providing insights and suggestions based on their experiences on the Spiegel grove(by the way as you noted you have none). no loose cannons here. again without exception, upper keys dive operators maintain strict protocol when diving the SG, duane, bibb and eagle. as I suggested earlier, listen and follow the instructions of your crew if one decides to dive the deep wrecks. hiring a divemaster for your initial dive on the grove is a viable option(or as noted on this forum, a few ops provide free divemasters; rainbow reef, scuba do and sailfish come to mind),,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

reefman
key largo

 

[billt4sf]

Thank you all for the comments. We are re-evaluating our decision to dive the Spiegel Grove. We looked at the video and followed a few links and discussion here on SB. DumpsterDiver, your comments are welcome and appropriate, IMHO. On one hand, we want an appropriate challenge, otherwise you never grow. But above all, we do not want to become a statistic.

First, if we do the SG, we will have a DM. SilentWorld said that "Our guides will be well beyond Dive Master, at minimum they will be Tec rated scuba instructors." So that is somewhat reassuring, but no DM can save us from a dive we are not ready for, so we are re-evaluating.

We feel comfortable if there is no or small current. We're comfortable with the depth, we have SMBs and mirrors. We're nitrox certified and use it on every dive. We're not experienced with blue water ascents. We most certainly do not feel comfortable if we are hanging on the line like a flag flying in the breeze, as someone said. I also am aware that the currents may be unpredictable, or at least not predictable from the surface. Somewhere in that mix is the possibility that we will want to abort the dive, either before we jump in, or during the dive.

The best we can think of now, is to have a discussion with Silent World about what conditions would cause us to want to abort the dive, and if we do, what would we do then? What if others on the boat are comfortable with the dive, and with double-dipping the SG under conditions that we would not want to proceed with?

Thanks,

Bill

 

[chachita]

I dove the Spiegel Grove in the Fall of 2011 as part of my wreck diving course. It was a few days after a tropical disturbance in the Caribbean, so there was a quite a lot of surf and current. On the surface and down til about 40 - 50 feet you had to grab the lines at all times or you'd float away instantly. The current began to subside at about 60 feet and was fine close to the wreck - we were able to swim and explore this amazing ship without too much trouble and exertion. It was the most thrilling dive I had ever done and is still, by far, my all-time favourite dive. I hope to go back to the Keys and do many more dives on Grove.

When I dove the Grove, I had the approximately the same number of dives as you do and also limited experience diving from boats. And to add to the challenge, I'm only 5'1" and weigh 115 lbs.... So, based on my level of diving experience and on the experience I had on the Grove, these are my recommendations to anyone looking to do this dive:

Do your research: read the recommended Spiegel Grove threads, like the one ReefDuffer recommends. I spent many hours here on SB reading as many threads on diving the SG as possible. As well, there are hundreds of threads here on Key Largo dive ops - read them all, so you can choose a dive op that is good at dealing with divers of difference levels and is known for being super safe.

Be fit: once I knew I may have to swim in strong currents, I stepped up my workouts doing a lot of interval training as well as walking and biking for long distances. I also did a lot of strength training to ensure I could get out of the boat with all my equipment on. This was crucial, as getting out was the hardest part of the whole dive - the boat was jumping up and down a good 8-10 feet and you had a few seconds to grab the ladder, get your feet on it and hang on.

Hire a guide. This is an advanced dive. You'll be a lot more comfortable and will be able to enjoy it a lot more if you are with someone who knows the area, the conditions and the wreck really well. I had my wreck instructor when I did it and will hire a guide when I go back.

Have safety equipment. Most boats in the Keys won't let you on without a safety sausage, but IMHO that is not enough. In high seas an 8-10 sausage is not easy to see and at night it's useless. Get a Nautilus Lifeline or a McMurdo FastFind, which is what I have. If you don't want to buy one, ask the dive ops you reaserch if they have them, as many boats carry them now or you can probably rent one.

Wear gloves. Grabbing on to the wildly girating ropes will shred your hands.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Thank you all for the comments. We are re-evaluating our decision to dive the Spiegel Grove. We looked at the video and followed a few links and discussion here on SB. DumpsterDiver, your comments are welcome and appropriate, IMHO. On one hand, we want an appropriate challenge, otherwise you never grow. But above all, we do not want to become a statistic.

First, if we do the SG, we will have a DM. SilentWorld said that "Our guides will be well beyond Dive Master, at minimum they will be Tec rated scuba instructors." So that is somewhat reassuring, but no DM can save us from a dive we are not ready for, so we are re-evaluating.

We feel comfortable if there is no or small current. We're comfortable with the depth, we have SMBs and mirrors. We're nitrox certified and use it on every dive. We're not experienced with blue water ascents. We most certainly do not feel comfortable if we are hanging on the line like a flag flying in the breeze, as someone said. I also am aware that the currents may be unpredictable, or at least not predictable from the surface. Somewhere in that mix is the possibility that we will want to abort the dive, either before we jump in, or during the dive.

The best we can think of now, is to have a discussion with Silent World about what conditions would cause us to want to abort the dive, and if we do, what would we do then? What if others on the boat are comfortable with the dive, and with double-dipping the SG under conditions that we would not want to proceed with?

Thanks,

Bill

I think you just need to get some practice and confidence in doing a blue water ascent. It is actually simple, really... but it is also really simple to screw up.

So once you have that down and are confident you can do it, then IF you get blown off the wreck (or ascent line) it is NOT a big deal. You just ascend to the surface, inflate the SMB and plan on floating for 45 minutes until the boat comes and finds you.....An embarrassment maybe, but NOT a big danger.

I think (if you can do that before doing the wreck dive) then this approach of securing the minimum necessary skills.. is much better than heading out on a boat.. not really knowing if you can (or should) make the dive. I can't imagine diving 100 feet under the sea without being entirely confident, I could just make a controlled and direct ascent (that is not what I call fun).

---------- Post added May 18th, 2013 at 12:38 PM ----------

re-read the previous posts, no one is recommending the SG to bill. without exception the posters are providing insights and suggestions based on their experiences on the Spiegel grove(by the way as you noted you have none). no loose cannons here. again without exception, upper keys dive operators maintain strict protocol when diving the SG, duane, bibb and eagle. as I suggested earlier, listen and follow the instructions of your crew if one decides to dive the deep wrecks. hiring a divemaster for your initial dive on the grove is a viable option(or as noted on this forum, a few ops provide free divemasters; rainbow reef, scuba do and sailfish come to mind),,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

reefman
key largo

I've done a bazillion dives on wrecks in strong currents. In my opinion, the ability to do a safe, controlled ascent without a hard guideline (i.e., mooring line) is an essential skill for an advanced, deep, ocean dive and it is not obviated by the presence of divemasters, technical instructors, nor radios that squawk for HELP from the surface.

 

[Peter_C]

Here is an important question the OP should be asking for those that have dove the wreck and know the boating conditions. How long is the ride out from the harbor to the wreck? Also how rough of a boat ride is it typically?

To those saying you will never need to do a blue water ascent, I do not believe that as I can think of many reasons a blue water ascent might be necessary. (Green water ascents are far harder though LOL)

 

[TSandM]

Having read your other thread about diving at home, I think you might have a much better time diving less challenging sites during your trip. This is both a deep dive and one that can be challenging, as others have reported, and I think you might be better off waiting until you have some solid skills with which to do it. It's always better being on shore, wishing you were diving, than being underwater, wishing you were on shore!

 

[deeper thoughts]

Thank you all for the comments. We are re-evaluating our decision to dive the Spiegel Grove. We looked at the video and followed a few links and discussion here on SB. DumpsterDiver, your comments are welcome and appropriate, IMHO. On one hand, we want an appropriate challenge, otherwise you never grow. But above all, we do not want to become a statistic.

First, if we do the SG, we will have a DM. SilentWorld said that "Our guides will be well beyond Dive Master, at minimum they will be Tec rated scuba instructors." So that is somewhat reassuring, but no DM can save us from a dive we are not ready for, so we are re-evaluating.

We feel comfortable if there is no or small current. We're comfortable with the depth, we have SMBs and mirrors. We're nitrox certified and use it on every dive. We're not experienced with blue water ascents. We most certainly do not feel comfortable if we are hanging on the line like a flag flying in the breeze, as someone said. I also am aware that the currents may be unpredictable, or at least not predictable from the surface. Somewhere in that mix is the possibility that we will want to abort the dive, either before we jump in, or during the dive.

The best we can think of now, is to have a discussion with Silent World about what conditions would cause us to want to abort the dive, and if we do, what would we do then? What if others on the boat are comfortable with the dive, and with double-dipping the SG under conditions that we would not want to proceed with?

Thanks,

Bill

For some local info. Do a search of Reefmans threads about the Spiegal Grove. You will get an unbiased, accurate description of the site on multiple dives. The current is hit and miss. I did the Duane in the am and it was free fall descent, in the afternoon they had to do a live drop on it.

 

[muzikbiz22]

Here is an important question the OP should be asking for those that have dove the wreck and know the boating conditions. How long is the ride out from the harbor to the wreck? Also how rough of a boat ride is it typically?

To those saying you will never need to do a blue water ascent, I do not believe that as I can think of many reasons a blue water ascent might be necessary. (Green water ascents are far harder though LOL)

If I remember correctly, it's about 15 minutes (give or take) from Silent Worlds dock to Spiegel Grove. Also, you're going to be tied up to the mooring ball, and will drop down on that line, tied to the wreck. Don't think it will be a blue water descent, unless something has changed ?