diving with two algorithms
- Thread starter Remy B.
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waterpirate
Contributor
If you are getting into deco dives you must take a deco course and learn how to plan dives to the minute,TDI,IANTD and GUE all offer excellent programs, they will teach you to plan multi level dives and write out a schedule (on a slate). To continue deco diving without proper training is very dangerous even if you have an appropriate tech computer such as the Petrel. If your deco dives were mistakes, learn from them...thanks the stars you are ok and don't do it again.
For two diffrent algorithms the best advice other than diving one algorithm would be to use the aggressive one only when you start to get low on gas (and that should NEVER be the case).
In one of Steve Lewis (on here he's known as Doppler) books he says dive every dive conservative, always have more than a reserve amount of air in your cylinder, it'll be great fun to tell your grand kids when your old.
why push a dive to its limits? It is never worth it! And remember a dive isn't over until your surface interval is complete....dcs can still get you an hour after diving.
One last question, when you blow a NDL or force a deco...what should you do for your remaining dives that day? I pray you answered with "cancel them". Until you have more knowledge from a tech school it's not worth being a science experiment.
be safe friend!
For two diffrent algorithms the best advice other than diving one algorithm would be to use the aggressive one only when you start to get low on gas (and that should NEVER be the case).
In one of Steve Lewis (on here he's known as Doppler) books he says dive every dive conservative, always have more than a reserve amount of air in your cylinder, it'll be great fun to tell your grand kids when your old.
why push a dive to its limits? It is never worth it! And remember a dive isn't over until your surface interval is complete....dcs can still get you an hour after diving.
One last question, when you blow a NDL or force a deco...what should you do for your remaining dives that day? I pray you answered with "cancel them". Until you have more knowledge from a tech school it's not worth being a science experiment.
be safe friend!
I know how to do that. Carry two sets of tables with me. But we are talking multilevel dives, and triangular profiles in part of them. Ie, gradually up or gradually down. Why should I do that to get a 5 min second dive if my backup computer will give me 20 minutes? Note that dive 2 may be at a different site. Dive profile is normally adjusted to conditions. Is there a bottom murk layer? Is there a thermocline? Something interesting at 60 ft. Something interesting at 85 ft. Planning for the most conservative case using tables gives very little time. Only square profiles I see are in the Keys on the reefs and there it does not matter really although I still dive a computer. You have hours of NDL.
I can see that it was my mistake as my first dive I made one click to far and enter the dive in Nitrox mode, but when I surfaced I had to change the EAN % to 21 as suggested in the manual
---------- Post added February 8th, 2015 at 10:35 AM ----------
Gas amount has not been of a concern so far, I had half a tank when I ran over the NDL on one of the DC, while the other never got in to it, both set on 21%
And that small Deco was my second dive, taken two a day.
I do follow the more concervative DC, in this case it is the Punk Pro, aldo it is said that Suunto suppose to be the most conservative DC it happen that it was not in this case.
And there are what I believe big differences in NDL, 13min at one point, that is what boils down to my first post, are people getting the niggles with Suunto more than with other brand DC, I know it is a little different by the individual and taken conditions of the dive.
With one DC I enter deco, with the other not, then it comes to the point if I had only the D4i with me, would I had feel like sh... after the dive ??? Taken not extra time was added on 5m safety stop, like normally I do.
Diving with two different DC, don't confuses me I just follow more one than the other, but I notice the difference that got me thinking "what if"
You're going to follow your equipment right into a decompression chamber one of these days Remy... or worse. I hope you live to tell the tale, but honestly I fear that one day you'll just stop posting here and we'll never know why.
The main reason is that you don't even UNDERSTAND your equipment. The fact that you don't understand how the Suunto handles repetitive dives tells me you never even glanced at the manual.
If you have no idea what you're doing... it doesn't really matter what algorithm you use.
---------- Post added February 8th, 2015 at 11:50 AM ----------
Huh?
I think you've just found another way to overthink everything that you're doing. You sure do seem to like to do that.
Again... more support for the idea that you don't understand what you're doing or how to properly use equipment like a computer to do it.
Your body "enters deco" at whatever point YOUR BODY enters deco. The computer you are using has nothing to do with it. It may be semantics/language but I really don't think it will be long before you post here about an "undeserved" DCS hit.
waterpirate
Contributor
Playing the devils advocate here. Your example of why dive planning is not effective, is also a glowing endorsement of why it is effective
. I here this argument a lot, from people who are not experienced enough to make sound judgements about their own dive planning. You said your day was over, I said dive planning would continue your diving. I never said that the dive planning after your first failure, would yield the same bottom time as a no failure dive day.
You can not expect the same results using a different tool for the same job. You can expect to continue diving albeit more conservative than your liking.
Eric
. I here this argument a lot, from people who are not experienced enough to make sound judgements about their own dive planning. You said your day was over, I said dive planning would continue your diving. I never said that the dive planning after your first failure, would yield the same bottom time as a no failure dive day.You can not expect the same results using a different tool for the same job. You can expect to continue diving albeit more conservative than your liking.
Eric
You sure ARE overthinking it needlessly. Use ONE computer, and obey the NDL it computes for you. Simple. Presuming that a computed NDL is just a somewhat arbitrary line the computer attempts to draw through a fuzzy gray area is a poor way for a rec-only diver to think about it. Get more training, and THEN let yourself start thinking deeper and more independently. I think for us rec divers, it's GOOD to be a little dogmatic about obeying our computer's NDL.
I'm a purely recreational-level diver, and of hundreds of dives in over 15+ years, my computer has only ONCE (okay, maybe twice) indicated that I screwed up and overstayed the NDL it computed for me. I considered it a big failure on my part. I remembered what I was taught in OW about NDLs, and felt I had let my instructor down. It amazes me that you take it so casually and are more interested in why two computers behaved differently than the fact that you screwed up.
I'm a purely recreational-level diver, and of hundreds of dives in over 15+ years, my computer has only ONCE (okay, maybe twice) indicated that I screwed up and overstayed the NDL it computed for me. I considered it a big failure on my part. I remembered what I was taught in OW about NDLs, and felt I had let my instructor down. It amazes me that you take it so casually and are more interested in why two computers behaved differently than the fact that you screwed up.
Blindly? No.
Neither one is better than the other... especially to someone who doesn't understand how they work.
The computer knows when IT is in deco mode based its algorithm and how you've set it. However, since it doesn't measure how much nitrogen is in your blood... it effectively had no idea if YOU need decompression stops. This is particularly true for someone who doesn't understand decompression theory, doesn't understand their computer, and entered the water with out a dive plan.
You seem concerned that the Mares gave you a very different dive plan than the Suunto. Consider the fact that the one thing the two of them had in common on that dive was YOU. I can't imagine what you did to cause one to give 13 more minutes of NDL than the other on a recreational dive. Never mind the fact that you somehow managed to get the Suunto to be the more liberal computer.
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