DM On Phuket

[3P]

the example i mentioned (do your DM with us and you will be able to do two liveaboard trips and one speed boat trip to, e.g., the similians.) is actually from a dive base that got good critiques in this forum.
of course i understand that it wont be fun dives, but part of the dive master course. i just thought that in this case i would increase my chances of seeing something big. i suppose if a manta passes by it would be ok to risk a quick look?

and please tell me, if its not possible for a DM to get a work permit, what is the sense of being one?

 

[Quero]

There is such a lot of diving activity around here that many, many operators get positive reviews. But when a DM course offers what appears to be a fantastic opportunity, what is left unsaid or left to the prospective DMT's wishful thinking can easily lead to unrealistic expectations. I don't believe our operators try to willfully mislead; they simply leave some things open to the customer's romantic imagination. As long as your expectations and understanding of what you are getting are realistic, you will be in a better position to evaluate the advantages of each program you consider. So please keep an open mind as you read (don't get defensive) and let me see if I can explain a little more fully.

DMing on a liveaboard is hard work with long hours, and while DMing on a speedboat trip means you work shorter hours, there's a lot more lifting and carrying and switching out tanks involved because there are no compressors or quick fills on speedboats. So both are rather tiring, actually exhausting after several days in a row of it. Being in the water DMing is a very different experience from being in the water fun diving, even if a manta does pass overhead and you get a chance to gaze in awe. I go to the Similans regularly as a working instructor, and of course it's always nice to dive up there, but when I really want to have a good time and do my own diving, take as many pictures as I like, relax between dives, etc., I take advantage of discounts, pay for a trip and let somebody else do all the work. As a matter of fact, this is also true of diving at our daytrip sites, which I've dived hundreds of times; if I want to simply enjoy the dive, I pay for the pleasure.

Why pay when I already go for "free" all the time? When you are DMing, it's not your dive; it's the customers' dive. Yes, you are in the water, but your enjoyment is entirely secondary. As a DMT unfamiliar with the dive sites, you will not be leading many dives, if any, (as a customer, would you be happy to pay for a dive trip in which your dives were led by somebody who didn't know the dive site well?), so if somebody has to surface after 20 minutes with the air hog and misses the manta sighting, for example, that will be you!

Why become a DM? That depends entirely on the candidate. For foreigners who want to work in this region, most often the DM rating is a stepping stone to the Instructor rating. For those who want to work in their home countries, it may be the case that they simply like to lead dives and don't have the patience or inclination to be teachers. I just finished with one DM student who had bought a small diving speedboat in the Caribbean for her own pleasure, not as a commercial enterprise; she believes that divers on her boat are her responsibility, and she wanted to gain the knowledge and skills to be a competent dive leader when she takes people out diving.

Are you from Austria? Ukraine? If so and you are hoping to work in the diving industry, I don't suppose you'll be doing much DMing in your home country, but it's something to think about. What is your objective in wanting to become a DM? Where do you want to work? In fact, in many places like Thailand, getting a work permit as an Instructor is imperative for foreigners because local citizens are preferred as dive leaders (and in many cases aren't really even formally trained as DMs anyway). Also, in many places instructors spend more time DMing than actually teaching scuba, but they are more versatile employees since a DM cannot teach, but an instructor can DM.

Does all of that offer any insight in regard to your questions? Does it raise further questions?

 

[watboy]

I think the OP's core assumption is flawed: that a shop that he does his DMT at, will happily offer him discounted recreational diving once the program is finished. As Quero has mentioned, DM programs aren't very good money makers for the shop to begin with, at best its a source of cheap, unskilled dive labor. But there's also the social dynamic. You are doing your DMT, you become part of a team. Then one day you want to pop from being a crewmate to a paying customer, from being the intern lugging tanks and washing gear, to the one being served.

I like diving, both as recreational and as a DM. But they are both very different and provide different rewards. As a DM, I enjoy meeting new divers, giving them briefings and showing things that are new to them. Even mundane things like clown fish are much more fun when someone smiles at seeing it for the first time. I also enjoy helping divers out, sharing tips on diving. If you want to be a DM, my belief is that you have to be someone who can enjoy diving on this basis. You don't say "this dive was great, I saw a manta", you say "this dive was great, my 4 customers each saw mantas".

 

[Zippsy]

.......
Where do you want to work? In fact, in many places like Thailand, getting a work permit as an Instructor is imperative for foreigners because local citizens are preferred as dive leaders (and in many cases aren't really even formally trained as DMs anyway).

just curious.... Why is a local dive guide without formal training preferred over a non-local, trained DM?

 

[Quero]

That's a fair question, Z, and I'm not in a position to speak authoritatively to the reasons; I only know that it's commonplace all over SE Asia. At the risk of going off topic, I can hazard a few guesses.

To begin with, I would suppose that since there seem to be no laws requiring that dive guides be certified DMs, there is a certain amount of resistance amongst the local population to continue training to that level. Not only is the training expensive for locals, but it's not always easy to master the academic topics, particularly if the materials are not available in the language of the country. Furthermore, annual professional membership renewal fees are steep for locals. I've personally dived with many local guides who have trained only up to the level of Advanced Open Water--in Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, and the Philippines. They know the dive sites well, and they are generally eagle-eyed critter spotters, but I'd not want to depend on their rescue or first aid skills.

As to why many companies prefer to hire local dive guides who may not have professional-level training over fully-trained foreign DMs, I believe that again it's in part a question of economics. Ordinary dive guides are typically paid less than certified professionals, and the costs of securing legal work documents for foreigners can be substantial--naturally, when hiring locals this becomes a moot point. There are also other legal issues--in Thailand labour laws restrict all 'guide' jobs to Thai nationals, and Thailand will not issue a work permit to a foreigner if his/her main duties fall into one of the reserved-for-Thais professional categories (which also include all sorts of positions ranging from umbrella maker to architect to hairdresser to front-office staff to farmer, etc.). Here in Thailand, even if a foreign dive professional only wishes to guide dives and doesn't want to teach scuba diving at all, it's still necessary to become an instructor if for no other reason than that work permit issuance for dive instructors is routine.

 

[Zippsy]

Thanks for "hazarding" because that is a minefield.

 

[stevenl]

just curious.... Why is a local dive guide without formal training preferred over a non-local, trained DM?

On Phuket I don't know any local guides without formal training, but in general I would say: local guides are preferred because they are cheaper. Plus in Thailand a foreign DM will not get a workpermit.

To the OP: if you continue to OWSI your chances of work worldwide will increase tremendously.

 

[conni]

If diving is more important than location, then why not head somewhere where you get more for your money?!

I did my Divemaster course on Gili Trawangan, Indonesia, in 2009 and all the dive shops there offer unlimited diving included in the course. And I did a loooot of dives! Whenever you have the time, get a tank and jump on the boat. If you stick around for after the course, you might get to do some guiding or carrying tanks in exchange for fun dives.

Good deals to be found there. All the course prices on the island are the same and I'd recommend any shop. I stuck around for 5 months, became an instructor and loved it there. Heading back in February hopefully permanently.

I found the diving around Gili to be pretty cool and versatile. Lots of deep dives and a couple of wrecks, mostly drift.

Maybe that helps...

 

[3P]

thanks for your suggestions, they helped a lot!

 

[jay cal]

Ill be in Phuket Thailand same time and need more dive partners