Do any of the newer Canon +

[sandrascuba]

compact cameras come with a setting for underwater to set the white balance? A friend of mine has a S10 (I think that's it) and she sets her white balance for underwater and gets remarkable images without having to set the white balance for every shot manually.

I'm looking for a nice Canon in the compact range that allows manual settings plus has this white balance feature.

I've been through most of the cameras on Dpreview and most say under white valance they have auto plus 6 over-rides. Could one of the over-rides be underwater or what would those over-rides be?

Thanks.

Sandra

Thanks.

 

[dcs917]

I have had the Canon A620 for about 4 months now, and it has several "Scene" modes to include an "Underwater mode" with Auto white balance. Takes pretty decent pics, although one of my next puchases will be an external strobe. I also have the Canon housing, and have been very happy with the combination - and especially the price.

Dive safe.

 

[HowardE]

compact cameras come with a setting for underwater to set the white balance? A friend of mine has a S10 (I think that's it) and she sets her white balance for underwater and gets remarkable images without having to set the white balance for every shot manually.

I'm looking for a nice Canon in the compact range that allows manual settings plus has this white balance feature.

I've been through most of the cameras on Dpreview and most say under white valance they have auto plus 6 over-rides. Could one of the over-rides be underwater or what would those over-rides be?

Thanks.

Sandra

Thanks.

The Canon underwater mode is good for just using the internal flash, or no flash at all (with ambient light). It basically applies a red filter to the image. Depending on the depth of the dives, it would either be too much, or not enough. Although it does work quite well in the 30-60 foot range.


Which specific model are you referring to to see what these "over-rides" would be? Without knowing for sure, I would guess that they are manual temperature settings for the white balance??

 

[RonFrank]

I certainly understand the allure of having a WB that works without setting it, or in all conditions. However there can be only one correct color temp!

WB involves the color temp of light. If one uses flash that color temp is daylight at something around 5500K. If shooting in good vis at less than 40 feet the color temp of the water is going to be *around* 5500K, and flash will balance with the ambiant light.

However the reality is that mixing light (flash vs. ambiant) often does not work out in any situation. It's pure physics, how can it? Either the color temp is constant across light sources, or it's not. Generally it is not, and this is true topside as well with most mixed light situations.

And it get's more involved? The exposure required for subjects UW is going to often require flash to stop subject movement, allow good DOF, and low ISO values. The best images are going to involve low ISO shooting as higher ISO's result in more grain (film) or more noise (digital). So if one has f8 light at 1/125 at ISO 100 mixing light is going to work out. If not, some decisions must be made. Those decisions involve using flash as a primary light source and excluding parts of an image out of flash range, or attempting to adjust ISO, shutter, aperture, and flash to get some balance in mixed light.

If one does not have a situation where either flash is the only light source, or ambiant light is very good, one has mixed lighting, pure and simple. If one is lucky, or practiced, maybe the image has a foreground that is exposued by flash, and a background that is a somewhat pleasing blue. Or maybe the flash just does not record at all, and the camera setting is set to A (no luck here, just not understanding how things are working, but the camera is doing to thinking).

This is why shooting WA shots and mixing ambiant light is difficult. Shooting closer shots using a primary light source of flash is much easier. There is a reason that what people term as macro shots are often so good, where one sees a LOT less high quality overall wideangle reef shots.

So the short answer is no, there is no magic WB setting. If using flash as a primary light source the WB can be set to daylight or flash. If one is using ambiant light then setting the WB prior to shooting is going to be the best option. Some camera's provide an UW setting which is going to set the WB, but it is a guess at best. I think my cuz discovered she could not shoot in manual mode using Canon's UW setting using an A series camera, but I'm not an expert on how each manufacture handles their UW setting. Howarde likely has it right to the degree that an UW setting is going to add Red, and to a lesser extent green, and/or eliminate blue. Manufactures can come to some logical decision on what an UW setting should be, but it's not going to be the best solution for most situations.

Sorry for the long explaination, but lighting is everything in photography. I don't think a lot of people really understand it, but fortunately the camera's have become damn good, and things like iTTL are largely responsible for a lot of people getting reasonalbe shots or even great shots with little understanding.

 

[clgsamson]

I use a Canon A95 with the underwater scene mode and you can't use it when you go manual. My A95 when switch to underwater mode always set my shots at 1/60 at F/2.8-5.6 and the reds and yellow hues are more pronounced but just not making it for me, picture wise. So I bought a strobe (Inon D2000w) I discontinued using the underwater scene mode and just went manual. Ron is again right, "lighting in photography is everything" so I went from experimenting from f stops/shutter speeds to a underwater photo workshop and now I shoot something like these -

I guess I'm OT already but Sandra, try to consider a strobe.

 

[sandrascuba]

Wow, thanks for the information and pictures. I don't pretend to understand but the info here is much appreciated. That being said, I have a few more questions if you don't mind. I have a Sony DSC-S85 (4.1 MP) and a Ikelite DS125 strobe rig. The camera is housed in an Ikelite housing, which has a long tray and two heavy grip handles. The camera, housing, tray, handles, flash, flash arms, red filter and other do-dads requires a Pelican that I can't even lift so that I can take the set-up with me. I can handle the camera and housing but the strobe set-up usually gets left behind now as I have found that U/W the whole system together is just too much to handle. The Sony camera has long been discontinued and I've never been able to get good pictures with it - even topside. My pics all (land and u/w) look washed out and dull, but can be adjusted to somewhat OK by using "auto fix enhance feature in Adobe Photoshop Elements." I don't want to have to shoot a white card before taking every picture underwater or manually set the w/b. I just want to dive and take a few pictures along the way.

So, I'm looking at the Canons as the housings I've seen for them look manageable and I wouldn't need a Sherpa to take may camera/housing with me. I don't mind buying another flash system for it but no way do I want something like my DS125. I want a system to take with me underwater that will not consume all my attention but will allow me to bring back some decent pictures, allow some growth in photography and be size-wise manageable. I'm going to Yap in February and hope I can take some photo lessons with Mike V while there.

Do you have any system recommendations that might fit my requirements?

Thanks.

Sandra

 

[HowardE]

Wow, thanks for the information and pictures. I don't pretend to understand but the info here is much appreciated. That being said, I have a few more questions if you don't mind. I have a Sony DSC-S85 (4.1 MP) and a Ikelite DS125 strobe rig. The camera is housed in an Ikelite housing, which has a long tray and two heavy grip handles. The camera, housing, tray, handles, flash, flash arms, red filter and other do-dads requires a Pelican that I can't even lift so that I can take the set-up with me. I can handle the camera and housing but the strobe set-up usually gets left behind now as I have found that U/W the whole system together is just too much to handle. The Sony camera has long been discontinued and I've never been able to get good pictures with it - even topside. My pics all (land and u/w) look washed out and dull, but can be adjusted to somewhat OK by using "auto fix enhance feature in Adobe Photoshop Elements." I don't want to have to shoot a white card before taking every picture underwater or manually set the w/b. I just want to dive and take a few pictures along the way.

So, I'm looking at the Canons as the housings I've seen for them look manageable and I wouldn't need a Sherpa to take may camera/housing with me. I don't mind buying another flash system for it but no way do I want something like my DS125. I want a system to take with me underwater that will not consume all my attention but will allow me to bring back some decent pictures, allow some growth in photography and be size-wise manageable. I'm going to Yap in February and hope I can take some photo lessons with Mike V while there.

Do you have any system recommendations that might fit my requirements?

Thanks.

Sandra

Do you have the Manual EV controller for the DS125? Or does it hook directly to the housing with a sync chord?

 

[sandrascuba]

Hi Howard... The DSC-S85 has a small onboard (built-in) flash. It's either on/off or auto. The DS125 strobe is controlled by the Ikelite DS Sensor. The Sony's little onboard strobe is blocked and I think the DS125 strobe fires by measuring the preflash setting coming from the Sony. The DS sensor is a PITA as it always has to be adjusted at depth and sometimes works and sometimes it doesn't.

I hope this is the answer you need.

Sandra

 

[HowardE]

Hi Howard... The DSC-S85 has a small onboard (built-in) flash. It's either on/off or auto. The DS125 strobe is controlled by the Ikelite DS Sensor. The Sony's little onboard strobe is blocked and I think the DS125 strobe fires by measuring the preflash setting coming from the Sony. The DS sensor is a PITA as it always has to be adjusted at depth and sometimes works and sometimes it doesn't.

I hope this is the answer you need.

Sandra

The TTL Slave sensor isn't highly recommended even by ikelite. But it will work with many point and shoot cameras.

Canon made a camera called the S70 and there's a canon housing for it. The S70 while it's recently discontinued, can shoot in RAW, and has full manual settings. (A friend of mine recently picked one up on Ebay with a housing for $350) I would recommend selling the "DS Sensor" and getting a "Manual EV controller" it is similar to the TTL sensor, but much better.

 

[RonFrank]

Hi Sandra,

First if you want to sell the DS-125 let me know as I'm interested!

If you go with a camera without a hotshoe, your best bet is to get a strobe with an optical sensor. Users of the Inon strobes seem very happy, and those strobes are much more compact vs. the DS-125.

HERE is a Canon that looks interesting. It does not have RAW, which would be a deal breaker for me, and you would need to verify that Canon or Ike is going to make an UW housing. What I like about it is the 28mm wide lens, image stabilazation, and it appears to be fairly fast at 1.7 frames per second in high speed mode. It does NOT hava a hot shoe.

There are a LOT of discussions on PnS type camera's for UW shooters on SB. You may want to do a search.

I would expect that if your images look washed out and dull, it maybe operator error! What do the histograms look like? Some PnS cameras do more in camera processing like upping the saturation and contrast to give the images more punch out of camera. Others like a lot of Nikons do very little image manipulation in camera and that results in more nuteral tones. I think you would like the out of camera results from most Canon PnS products.

If you want help with your images, start another thread, and post an image along with your settings especially how you are metering, and settings like hue, tone, contrast, saturation along with the basic aperture, shutter, and ISO. Maybe we can help you get some better results.