Do I really need a computer?

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Charlie99:
Are your dives within square profile table limits, or are you calculating and tracking multilevel dives along with using your computer?

Most of my dives are waaaaaaaay off the tables, even though they are reasonably conservative, safe profiles.

Good points for using a VR3 (or any computer for that matter) but we're talking basics here (he said NDL dives). Say you're in Truk after having spent 24 hours on the plane, making your first dive ... a casual 80 ft dive, you splash, your computer malfunctions (for whatever reason) at 30 ft, you still have a watch and depth gauage functioning. Do you abort the dive?

My point is ... whenever possible diving tables is good backup. Clearly in your case (a multi-level dives) it's not.
 
DiveGolfSki:
.... but we're talking basics here (he said NDL dives). Say you're in Truk after having spent 24 hours on the plane, making your first dive ... a casual 80 ft dive, you splash, your computer malfunctions (for whatever reason) at 30 ft, you still have a watch and depth gauage functioning. Do you abort the dive?

My point is ... whenever possible diving tables is good backup. Clearly in your case (a multi-level dives) it's not.
Many times divers post "I always keep track of my dives on tables". That tells me that most likely they are either new divers doing very short dives; or that they are diving sites (or wrecks) that result in fairly close to square profiles

I'm talking NDL dives too. Nothing wild or fancy.... just jumping off a boat with a single AL80 and tooling around a reef. Of course, when starting the first dive, you have are starting clean and you can just do a square profile plan as backup --- 80', 30 minutes, or some multilevel profile that you remember. (I do indeed have a handful of multilevel profiles handy in memory, just because they are my dive plan so often -- so my backup for the Truk situation you hypothesize would be much better than just 80' 30 minutes).
A common profile in Maui is 80' or 120' max, with dive time of an hour or so. Obviously way off any square profile table, even though the dives are within NDL and are very conservative profiles. A lot of dive sites have interesting stuff at all depths, so it's easy to do a multilevel dive with max depth >80' and total dive time on an AL80 of 60+ minutes using just a single AL80. In those cases, it's difficult to do as you suggest and keep track on the tables. This is where a computer comes in very handy.


In other areas, with close to flat bottoms and nothing of interesting between the bottom and the surface, then YES, keeping track of everying on tables is easy.

-------------------

So when you post "if the computer "craps out" at the beginning of the dive, the dive is not over for me since my backup (my dive plan, tables and brain) tells me otherwise." my question is whether
1) he's really just referring to the first dive of the day, where there hasn't been anything to track.
2) he's diving square profiles, which means that you don't lose much bottom time when using tables
3) he's actually going to the trouble of planning and tracking multiple level profiles with the PADI wheel
4) his plan is really nothing more that having looked at his computer before starting a 2nd or 3rd dive and remembering the NDLs that his computer has generated before the dive
OR
5) he's got some other improved method not mentioned above.

I'm always open to learning new tricks, so please tell us some more about how you keep track on repetitive dives.
 
As a new diver, I've really enjoyed my Suunto Mosquito (full function dive computer that's the size of a large-ish watch - cost me around $400 at my LDS).

I really haven't been 'in charge' on the dives that I've done so far... meaning that I've hopped on a boat with a bunch of divers and a DM, they drive us somewhere, we hop over, and start diving with little knowledge of what the profile will be.

Plus, several of the dives, while perfectly safe, have been way off the charts anyway. I had a couple dives in Cozumel that hit nearly 90 feet and were about 50 minutes long (obviously the average depth was much shallower)!!!

The general feeling there was that you just follow the dive masters until someone gets low on air. They do tell you what the depths will generally be - but it's not like I sat at home and 'planned' this dive or really knew much about where I was going beforehand. Several of the people in the group did not have computers - they just assumed that the DM's would keep us within the limits and safe... THAT would have made me nervous as heck.

Having the computer has kept me confident that I'm still within NDL limits. It helps me gauge my ascent rate (not by waiting for alarms but by watching its ascent meter), it times the safety stop for me etc. Heck - it even tells me when it is okay to fly.

Before I get flamed too badly - I realize that I'm always in charge of my own (and my buddy's) safety - divemaster or no - and as I get more experienced I'm sure I'll feel more comfortable finding out more about the dive plan beforehand and asserting my feelings about what I'm uncomfortable about etc... .but as a noob, the freedom to enjoy the dive and work on getting my basic skills down better without having to spend too much time worrying about some of the details is nice.

Flamesuit ON :wink:
 
DiveGolfSki:
Makes no sense? Is that an opinion based on your long history of diving?

I guess in a perfect world, everything will function smoothly and relying solely on a computer makes sense. However, if you read any posts in the accident and incident pages, most equipment are prone to fail at some point. If you're not prepared with a backup, then that would tempting fate. Given that, relying on solely on a computer doesn't make sense. Having both a computer and tables (as well as depth/spg) does.

What has a higher probability of not functioning, your computer or a properly planned dive using tables?
DiveGolfSki, what difference does it make how many dives I have under my belt (which is approaching 100)? I am still entitled to an opinion am I not? I was recently on a dive expedition with 20 advanced divers. Out of the 20 divers, 18 of them had computers. On the average, we were doing 5 dives a day, most of them deep dives. The two divers who were diving tables missed a few dives over the length of the trip, solely because their tables called for a longer SI.

My computer has never failed. I am not saying it doesn't happen, but it is rare if it does, and I am sure the user is at fault (maintenance) most of the time. Anyway, if it fails, you ascend, no problem. Diving tables only limits you. It is good for backup, but a computer should be one of the first pieces of equipment you buy. Well worth the investment (IN MY OPINION, if that's okay with you).
 
Charlie99:
....I'm always open to learning new tricks, so please tell us some more about how you keep track on repetitive dives.

Why with a computer of course :05:

Charlie99, I'm not making the case that non-square profiles can be done on the tables. There obviously will be instances where using a computer will be the only way to go (in the examples you've described). All I'm saying is that to use both but to rely SOLELY on one (whether tables or computers) "doesn't make sense" GENERALLY.

BTW, there's been a lot of discussion on multi-level dive profiles. Here's one of them:

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=113004&highlight=multilevel+dive+profiles

Incidently, I noticed your post on that thread where you state:

Hopefully you are aware that sawtooth profiles, or repeated surfacing is generally a very bad idea.

:wazzup:
 
DCROOK:
I am still entitled to an opinion am I not?

Exactly ... it is your opinion that diving tables don't make sense.

It is good for backup, but a computer should be one of the first pieces of equipment you buy. Well worth the investment (IN MY OPINION, if that's okay with you).

We share the same opinion. It is worth every penny but if a diver cannot afford one (early in their dive career) or chooses to dive without one, it does make sense to dive even if it means having to sit out a couple of dives. Again just an opinion ... :D
 
I just realized something today - MY RDP is in FEET, and I think my crew will be using metric RDP's and I need to find a metric wheel type RDP. Where in the USA am I going to find one of these. Maybe a supplier in Canada will have one. Any clues?
 
DiveGolfSki:
Dive tables should be the holy grail of dive planning. If the water depth is 60' and the tables give you 60 minutes, you will probably be low on air after 60 minutes, if you come up with any decent ammount of air left in your cylinder for a saftey margin (500-800 psi). Not much need for a computer is there.
And to log gives, I didn't know that was a law.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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