do you ever notice negativity between dive shops?

[mdb]

In the "old days" most places with more than one dive shop had a SP store and a US DIVERS store. The NASDS/SP store usually bad mouthed the USD store for having poor instruction and questionable gear.

The USD store ripped the SP store as overpriced.

In San Diego in 1972 there was such a competition between San Diego Divers Supply and the old
New England Divers.

I took my first SCUBA courses with SDDS in La Jolla, close to where I lived. The instruction was good, lots of pool and class time and 5 open water check out dives, with free weekend fun dives as a follow up. There was a lot of pressure to be a SP poster boy.

Since I was working close to the NED store I went over at lunch time and ended up buying some gear from them. I got a little bit of heat from buying a Parkway wetsuit, a steel tank with "lifetime free air" and a few other things. I did end up with a SP Mark V, Jet fins, etc.

After working in this biss for 37+ yrs I realize that this small minded negativity is still the norm in too many places.

I admire those store owners who have nothing to say other than: "Glad you are a diver. How can we help you out?"

The internet is not going away. Many stores now carry all-too many-brands. What sets them apart-IMO-is those who have an upbeat attitude and strong customer service.

Those retailers who are happy to service equipment purchased elsewhere, that will be non confrontational if someone purchases something online or from another store, they will succeed, even in a difficult economy. Those who do not will be gone.

 

[2 Big 2 Fail]

The people in my area who open dive shops are people who do something else for a living, got into diving as a hobby and now are trying to run a business. They have no retail experience and don't know how to market what they have.

I know one shop which has lost money for years. They compete for students and they have incredibly small selection of gear. They rent the equipment for air fills and outsource servicing. Had a friend try numerous shops in the area and found them all to be lacking in quality training. They fulfilled the minimum requirements and not much more. They were totally unaware the other shop existed. When they went out to watch open water checkout dives they were really impressed with the training the students received. The shop should be charging more for training because they really have a quality product there. They just don't seem to know how to market their training as worth the extra money.

They do say the surest way to spoil your hobby is to make it your business. I find that when people dream of being in a particular business, they almost always overestimate the volume of business or they fail to recognize where they can realistically create business. Many, many very talented people crank out outstanding product but are just terrible at marketing it. The saying about the world beating a path to your door for your better mousetrap doesn't explain that it's not the mousetrap itself. They have to know about your better trap. And you need the correct balance between how much better it is, how much you can sell it for, and if anyone wants a trap that much better when they have to pay your price to get it.

And you can't necessarily make a go of the same dive shop business model of 20 years ago. No, the LDS doesn't have anything near the stock of the Internet retailer. That's okay. I understand that. And they likely can't sell for as little as the Internet guy. I understand that, too, but I value what the LDS offers in terms of trying things on and talking about them. But I at least want to go to the LDS website and see what the heck they have in stock, because it's a trek through nasty traffic. It's real easy to do. If you're trying to make a business go, you do absolutely everything you can, because you will never know why any particular potential customer didn't walk through the door. You had better give them every reason to come in, otherwise you're pretty much trying to make it off the counter-kickers who come in to talk and to run into their friends.

I did a quick website survey of the more or less local shops to me.

Shop A - I can tell they sell gear and the manufacturer they emphasize. I can see they are offering a holiday discount on their BCD's. But I have no idea of the kind of inventory they offer. At least there are shop interior photos to give me some kind of idea.

Shop B - Okay. This owner hooked up with a e-commerce outfit and actually has his inventory online, and I can see it's pretty extensive. If I'm going brick and mortar shopping, he's on my list.

Shop C - I can see they sell gear, but the website shows exactly one item in each type. One BCD. One mask. Etc.

Shop D - Sells gear. Tells me which manufacturers he deals. But that's it.

Shop E - Well, on the intro page, it says "equipment," and lists some makers. But once inside, there's not one word about gear. You'd think they didn't sell it.

Shop F - Another list of makers. No more.

Shop G - Sells gear and lists it. But wait. Look in BC's. "Nothing available in this category." What? I'll be moving on now.

Shop H - Snazzy website. (Real annoying background sound, though.) List of makers, but they're just links to the manufacturer websites.

Who wins? Shop B. It so happens I am really shopping for a wetsuit for my wife, and I know a particular make and model fits her well. And he has it and even has it a bit cheaper than the Internet seller I was looking at, although I was okay paying a little more to make sure it was right. I would guess some of the others have the same suit, but I KNOW this shop has it and at a right price, so that's where I'll head. The others didn't do everything they could, and they miss out. Sorry. Were they too lazy to do more? Does their business model depend too much on loyal return customers they trained? (Sure. I'll probably also check the price at the shop where I trained, because I know they have a lot of stuff on the floor.) But so far as me as a customer is concerned, seven out of eight shops were wrong, and I'm right, because the money they want to make is in my pocket.

 

[scubadiver888]

I admire those store owners who have nothing to say other than: "Glad you are a diver. How can we help you out?"

The internet is not going away. Many stores now carry all-too many-brands. What sets them apart-IMO-is those who have an upbeat attitude and strong customer service.

Those retailers who are happy to service equipment purchased elsewhere, that will be non confrontational if someone purchases something online or from another store, they will succeed, even in a difficult economy. Those who do not will be gone.

This is how I picked my current shop. Came in and talked to the owner. Was looking to upgrade my equipment. Told him I was shopping around and wanted a good price. Told me what he could offer me and was competitive. Another guy in the shop bought some equipment from eBay. Owner was happy to service it for the same price he serviced regs he sold. Asked if he could service my regs. Told me he didn't have a contact for the service kit and it would probably be cheaper to go to a shop which sold/serviced that brand of reg. I like the honesty and will definitely give him my business.

 

[k ellis]

The one exceptions said "that's great, congratulations! If you're ever interested in crossing over to us, here are some of the things that we offer" then went into their competitive advantages. I thought this was an anomaly, so I walked around, came back to a different person and got the same reaction.

See this was my whole point. Id be willing to drop a slightly (And I do say slightly) higher price to goto a shop like this over the net because of the whole its your happiness that counts attitude. The one shop I mentioned above does this same practice.

Its funny how most shops just act like unless your on their page your being fed garbage. It is sad that this is how the buisness industry has gone though as it is in every aspect of life people act like if your not making them money then your just an idiot and if you compete against them then you are the most god aweful person (Business) on the planet.

And great advice given so far too. I do agree if shops would open their mindset a little and do some internet sales they would find a better clientel to some extent too. It amazes me how their are places in this world where divers live and no shops exist often times well over 100 miles away. These guys want gear just as bad as any other diver yet dont want to drive two hours away for orings or perhaps a fin strap.

Also the price fixing so many of our industries manufactures have created at Local Dive Shops has really soured my taste buds too. I started buying the products that are buisness friendly and allow these stores to negotiate their own prices as these companies seem to actually care for the divers more then the ones who only seek to break the bank. (Sorry off topic a little)

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

The type of behaviour described in this thread is also seen in other recreational / sporting businesses as well. I see it among surf shops, bike shops, etc.

My feeling is that in many cases these types of businesses are started by enthusiasts with very limited retail / service experience prior to starting their "dream" business. They were divers, surfers, bikers who loved their sport, but were not necessarily well-suited to the harsh realities of a retail / service industry.

And of course, the internet has turned the life of the average LDS owner upside down. The LSD now has worldwide competition for gear sales, not just competition from the guy across town.

Deal with shops that are friendly and helpful, shun those with the attitude described in this thread.

Best wishes.

 

[kenbert61]

It's absolutely amazing how prevalent this is and especially so the further south you go.

What's that supposed to mean Doc? That the damn Yankees are friendlier.

 

[scubadiver888]

What's that supposed to mean Doc? That the damn Yankees are friendlier.

It is funny, I looked at NetDoc's post and wondered, when he talked about people to the south, if he meant Miami or the Caribbean.

 

[David_57]

Well I have seen the worst behavior of any sport exhibited between the dive shops up here in Eastern Ontario and Western Quebec. When I first started diving I found it all very confusing to the point I avoid going to the dive shops as much as possible.

Luckily enough there is one dive shop that never mentions or badmouths the others so this is where I go to get my fills.

 

[drbill]

In a single word, "yes." And I agree that it is bad for the overall sport to see such unprofessional behavior.

Here on Catalina dive shops do generally work together. For example, if one shop's boat doesn't have enough divers to go out, they will send them to the other shop so visiting divers still get a positive experience out of their stay on Catalina. If neither boat has enough, they'll pool divers and have one boat go out with them.

 

[Wookie]

In a single word, "yes." And I agree that it is bad for the overall sport to see such unprofessional behavior.

Here on Catalina dive shops do generally work together. For example, if one shop's boat doesn't have enough divers to go out, they will send them to the other shop so visiting divers still get a positive experience out of their stay on Catalina. If neither boat has enough, they'll pool divers and have one boat go out with them.

Whereas in Key West, everyone will send a boat out with 2 divers on it so everyone loses money. But, the divers get a great experience.