Does everyone hate Scuba Pro?

[maged_mmh]

you'll like the regs vanilla smell

 

[Thalassamania]

To all the loyal ScubaPro owners who took the time to write: How many of you have owned other "top of the line" gear?"

SP is a company people like to hate as they have a couple of price related policies that people do not always view in terms of the big picture.

The "big" picture is pretty simple, ScubaPro (and as you note U.S.D.) expect the diving public to pay a premium price for a product that is not better and perhaps inferior to competing products based on nothing more than marketing smoke and mirrors.

It's rare to find a dealer that does not sell another line just because Scubapro does not allow more than a 10% discount. This is almost always true with regard to BC's, masks, fins, wet suits, etc as SP products have traditionally been over priced compared to the competition (athough SP is getting a little better in that regard.)

All of ScubaPro's gear is "over priced compared to the competition," and your comment begs the question. What I said was, "What makes ScubaPro disliked is their marketing plan, they try to keep their dealers from discounting and most dealers do not sell any other full line." Note the word "full." Sure, your average ScubaPro shop will have an assortment of very high margin Brand Y stuff, but rather rarely a compeating full line (e.g., Mares, Oceanic, etc.) It is not an uncommon ploy for ScubaPro and Aqualung shops to have such brands on display so that they can sell against them. Before you rise to that moldy bait see if the shop is actually a dealer for the other brand ... you may be quite supprised.

The upside of this is that you can almost always find an SP dealer. The two are related - if a company making equipment sold to a niche maket does not provide a structure that protects low volume brick and mortar dealers from high volume discount internet sales, you won't have many local brick and mortar dealers.

That's nice. So what?

Also, I agree its not the most ethical practice in the world for dealers to sell SP gear and claim all other gear is second rate, but it is just as unethical for a dealer selling cheaper gear to claim SP is lower quality and over priced.

In my experience that is the norm, there are exceptions, but that is the norm.

When it comes to regulators SP is hard to beat in terms of quality or cost of ownership. SP does charge a lot up front and (just like Aqualung/Apeks who almost never takes heat for the same dealer and marketing practices). Both companies have price controls and marketing practices designed to curtail on-line sales, although both companies are not great at enforcing restrictions of on-line sales.

Up front cost is the downside of buying Scubapro regs, but they have historically continued to support discontinued regs for decades and their design philosophy has whenever possible allowed older models to be upgraded to current standards with new parts allowing them to remain on the cutting edge of performance.

An approach that has, for at least the last decade, keep them behind the power curve and resulted in their falling behind Atomic, Oceanic and Mares (in my view) as first choice for a high performance regulator. There is just not another company out there that will service and upgrade a 40 year old regulator and it is extremely common for divers with 20-25 year old regs to still be diving them and still be getting parts service and waranty support for them - and still own a regulator that equals the performance of anything sold new today. Over its history Scuabpro has only discontinued service support for the Pilot, Air 1 and first generation Air 2 and most models are still fully supported in terms of the soft parts subject to wear.[/quote]Do you think that SP maufacturers any of the "soft parts subject to wear" or even has them made for them? No ... of course not, all regulators and such are designed to take advantage of readily available "soft parts subject to wear." All that SP has done is continue to make those parts available (which can be bought from any number of sources, all it takes is a Thomas Register) in a ziplock back with a ScubaPro logo and a huge markup (even by SP standards).

In the rare event SP discontinues service and parts support for a particular model or no longer provides the parts needed to repair it, warranted regs are replaced with a new one of comparable performance. No one else offers that level of support.

This is true, if you have a ScubaPro regulator that you bought many years ago (and have hung onto the sales slip and the warrantee registration) and have had it serviced every year, without fail, by a ScubaPro authorized service center (and have hung onto ever repair receipt) then this might happen to you. Just how many requlators per year do you think this costs them?

In that context the up front cost of a Scubapro reg is a bargain when you consider the discounted competition's response is often to discontinue parts or service for your "bargain" priced reg 5 to 10 years after it was introduced requiring you to buy another one.

I'd have to disagree, my anaylsis yields quite the opposite result.

Scubapro/Uwatec computers are also "over priced" but Uwatec has also tended to introduce some truly cutting edge designs.

True about price, but what "cutting edge" designs have them come up with?

Similarly, SP has been known from time to time to offer steep discounts on new computers when older models are discontinued and replaced with the newer model. Few if any other companies will ever offer a 40% discount for customers to upgrade to a new computer.

Are you advising that we overpay now on the off chance to buy a 40% discounted older model Scubapro/Uwatec computer at a brick and mortor rather than a brand new, current model, other brand computer at 40% off on the internet. Somewhere the logic escapes me.

SP/Uwatec also offers great long term computer support. When SP was bought by JWA and began selling Uwatec computers, SP replaced my TRAC when it was in need of a battery replacement that could no longer be done at the factory. It cost me absolutely nothing and when a buddy of the day dropped a tank on that one a few years later after it had been discontined, SP provided me with a new one of comparable capability and features for a "simulated repair" cost that was less than the dealer cost on the new computer. In contrast, when the warranty provided by most other companies expires in 1 to 2 years, you are just out of luck and will end up buying another one. That bargain purchase is no longer a bargain when you have to spend the money 2 or 3 times in a given period of time.

Let's put that in perspective. SP/UT gear is maked up about 60% at each step. I can assure you that the "simulated repair" cost still permitted SP/UT to make a reasonable profit on the transaction. The real crime was when you looked at what they were charging to replace the batteries, (open case, remove board, unsolder battery, solder battery, replace board and close case in sink full of mineral oil).

So when you look at the total cost of ownership in terms of purchase price, free parts and long term service and support, I'd argue that the higher purchase price is more than offset over time and the SP reg or Uwatec computer ends up being a much better buy.

I'd be interesting to see how you might model that. My recommendation is that you buy the best requlator or computer that you can, at the lowest possible price. Learn to service yourself or have it serviced every two to three years, after five of six years get rid of it, buy a new one and start again.

 

[merxlin]

I like their regs. They make nice jacket BCs also, but I wear a rear inflate.

The Knighthawk is a back inflate BC. Excellent BC in my completely biased (Knighthawk owner) and humble opinion. It could use better pockets.

 

[lowviz]

I've been looking on here for threads about scuba pro and they are hard to find.....Their not even listed on the threads manufacturing list??? Is it a bad brand or something? I own all Scuba Pro equiptment and can't seem to understand why it's not discussed more on here......I thought it was some of the best gear there is....anyone know why?

Michael Sapp

I have a lot of SP equipment and consider it to be at or near top of the line for recreational gear. You won't find much discussion, any in fact, coming from SP on this board because IMHO they will only talk to dive shop owners, not customers. I have zero customer loyalty with them. If I need something of theirs and it is good I'll buy it with no regrets and no particularly good feelings, business deal. -Their choice on how they market.

 

[eanxdivr]

The only piece of Scuba Pro equipment that I own is my mask. I have had it now for 3 years, and if I hadn't just bought a ScubaMax Navigator mask with color correcting lenses, the SP mask would still be my primary mask. I may still use it on night dives, though. The frames and skirts are clear, so they let in a little more light. No complaints about the quality of the SP mask. It was a tad expensive, though...

 

[cdreamer]

To all the loyal ScubaPro owners who took the time to write: How many of you have owned other "top of the line" gear?"

"Top of the line" is open to interpretation.

 

[Stu S.]

Your dealer could have sent that mask in. Chances are that they would have replaced
it or charged a "simulated repair charge" at worst. Your dealer really could and should have taken better care of you. IMHO

Joe Dorsey would have probably taken one off the shelf and handed it to me. He was in it for the long haul. He turned customers into friends.

That 's what separated Scubapro from what you bought at a discount store. That's why Scubapro got started, to add value that a Kmart couldn't.

 

[Thalassamania]

"Top of the line" is open to interpretation.

Not really, top of the line is just that, the top of a given line. That way your comparing the most expensive ScubaPro regulator (for example) to the most expensive Atomic to the most expensive Oceanic, to the most expensive Mares, to the most expensive Poseidon, etc. Does not require a whole lot of interpretation except, perhaps, to create future wiggle room.

 

[shoturtle]

Uwatec new sol has some cutting edge, but it is overpriced.

 

[Thalassamania]

You mean the breathing rate and heart monitor nonsense, I've seen nothing in the literature to demonstrate that those are useful inputs to a decompression model. Flux Gate compass is a nice feature, but hardly cutting edge ... I've had one for years. Same for multiple transmitters. So what is valid "cutting edge?"