Doing it Ridiculous

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JeffG:
So its a killer bunny...kinda like the thing in Monty Pythons The Holy Grail.

Never saw it.
but Lobos (like a lot of sites) has it's good days and it's bad - remember it's got 6000 mi of ocean aimed right at it. it also has a number of 'terrain' features. A bay that is shallow enough for beginners but can have 10ft surge. on the far side is a number of caves, shallow yes but the back of one is a blow hole that the surge tries to pump you out. You can get around the corners, out of the bay, to some of the pinacles and it gets quite a bit more challenging than "Bunny".
 
waynne fowler:
Ok I'll just give it to you that you can drop your weights faster than I can turn on the valve... You quite possibly in fact are right.. you take 2 - 3 seconds to drop the weights (assuming they don't snag on something, leg, bcd, fin whatever, and that your not horizontal.. if your horizontal then you have to roll to one side or go vertical to drop it all the way off..) let's leave it at 2 - 3 seconds.

It may take me 3 - 4 seconds to turn my valve on in a pinch if something doesn't go right about the same as dropping weights if all goes well. But lets leave it at 3 - 4 seconds

I assume we are still talking about the same scenarios that this debate began with..

1) Diver not ready to enter water, kit on, air off, falls in water
2) Diver thinking he's ready jumps in water with air off.

What do you do.

A) Drop weights and go to the surface. Have someone go retrieve weights. put weights back in/on go on dive. (That assumes you can find them) How much of a hassle is it to put belt back on or reinstall into integrated pocket system (shouldn't be a great big deal but it's a bit of a hassle). This whole process might take only 10 minutes but has potential to take a lot more time.

B) Turn on valve and continue dive. Whole process takes only the amount of time it takes to turn the valves on.

If the tank is empty as someone threw out,... well we can still dump weights and we would have wasted about 5 maybe 10 seconds if things got fouled up.

It really doesn't matter how we slice it, what the situation is. If we enter the water with our valve off, the easiest remedy that makes the most sense will always be to simply turn our air on. I would imagine that there 'could' be some strange exception though I am at a loss to think of one.

If our rig doesn't allow us to do this it is a simple, most likely minor adjustment that will remedy this. Unless we have flexibility issues which we should work to resolve. All of this is simple stuff.

If our mask floods at 15' on our descent would we just pop up to the surface to clear it because after all we just descended?... No we'd clear it where we are.. The first thing we try to instill in new divers is that problems that occur under water should be remedied underwater.. simple stuff.

All good points, well taken. :05:

I never thought of the delay in ditching when horizontal, though I think being horizontal is unlikely in scenario 1).

If scenario 1) happens to me, even assuming I go for the valve, at the same time I think i'll be trying to fin up by instinct (which should be easy unless one is overweighted) or if needed, ditch weights. I can think of some sites where I can get too deep quickly and possibly have bigger problems.

In scenario 2), yes, the simple and quick solution is to turn on the valve, no argument on that.

I fully agree with you and I have always contended that problems that occur underwater can and should always be resolved underwater. Its just that I consider scenario 1) as a surface problem that can (also) be solved by establishing positive buoyancy.
 
Bruciebabe:
It would roll off too easily in an overhead environment. Roll offs kill people.

No. A roll off should never kill any one. It shouldn't even rattle them, let alone kill them. I don't know if it ever has or not but I haven't heard of it...at least not in a diver trained in overhead diving. I hate the valves that take like 57 turns to get on or off. I have some that I like that only require slightly more than one full turn.
 
MikeFerrara:
No. A roll off should never kill any one. It shouldn't even rattle them, let alone kill them. I don't know if it ever has or not but I haven't heard of it...at least not in a diver trained in overhead diving. I hate the valves that take like 57 turns to get on or off. I have some that I like that only require slightly more than one full turn.

Here is an account of a fully qualified and well equipped cave diver killed by a roll off this year. Admittedly there were other factors but it was still the roll off that killed him.

http://www.iucrr.org/20050529_01.htm
 
MikeFerrara:
I'm not DIR either but lots of divers do DIRF in doubles and every DIRF instructor I've ever seen uses doubles when teaching. I think valve drills are included in the class too which seems geared for doubles. I haven't ever heard of any DIR requirement for a single tank in OW but I don't think there's anything saying you can't dive a single tank where it makes sense.

But...most divers I know who dive doubles, only dive doubles and many don't even own a singles rig. I wouldn't own one if I didn't have it left over from my shop. I just don't need it.


Without being a DIR diver myself, I believe the mantra goes "If you don't need it, leave it at home. If you need it, bring two."

So that would necessarily mean twins.
 
Bruciebabe:
Here is an account of a fully qualified and well equipped cave diver killed by a roll off this year. Admittedly there were other factors but it was still the roll off that killed him.

http://www.iucrr.org/20050529_01.htm


Well, now I've heard of one. Although panic can kill you even without the roll-off and that's what this sounds like to me.
 
jiveturkey:
What's a roll off?

Doing It Right by Jarrod Jablonski page 83.

A roll off is when your left tank valve tap handle contacts an overhead environment, turning it off. This is why your DIR primary long hose comes from the right hand tank and a reason why you keep doing valve drills.

Here is an article about it:
http://www.iucrr.org/manifolds2.htm
 
Randy43068:
no comment

Very insightful. Come on admit it, you had help didn't you?

Edit...read what I wrote and it didn't look too good. That was a joke...now laugh every one so I don't feel bad and have my holiday ruined.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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