Double bladder wing for a Halcyon backplate/harness?

[Tortuga68]

To quote the Halcyon owner's manual:

"You should be certain through in-water testing prior to the dive that. without any air in your buoyancy compensator, you are capable of swimming against the weight of you (sic) configuration with full tanks and all weight in place. You need to verify that you are able to manage your scuba configuration in the event of a buoyancy failure"

I'd add to that that you should carry some ditchable weight, and an SMB; I recently switched to an alloy BP to allow for some ditchable weight (I previously used a SS BP and didn't need any additional weight - with no/3mm springer wetsuit)

So based on the above, I don't see the need to use a double bladder (for my diving anyway)

Thanks also to Nemrod (sb poster) who assisted me in coming to this solution

 

[danvolker]

My questions....are you diving in the ocean or cave---meaning....why double steels? For ocean, doubles should be aluminum 80s, then you have no bouyancy issues, except for your choice of suit.....I am not familiar with the brand of suit that was mentioned, but I have seen plenty of 7 mil wetsuits, and my choice would be a dry suit if it is cold enough to need 7 mil--then the suit does not swing bouyancy.
Regards,
Dan V

 

[Jasonmh]

Since Halcyon doesnt make one, will ANY OTHER BRAND of double bladder fit onto my Halcyon backplate and harness? (I really hate the idea of having to invest in a completly new setup. I'd rather buy a different brand of double bladder and bolt it onto my Halcyon rig. Can I??)

Yes, you can use your existing BP and harness with a different wing. Oxycheqs double bladder wings will work fine with the H BP:
Wings-Double

There are plenty of other post on if you should use the dual bladder wing, but the answer is that you can if you really want to.

 

[Colliam7]

My Tec instructor wants me to get a double bladder BCD wing. Since Halcyon doesnt make one, will ANY OTHER BRAND of double bladder fit onto my Halcyon backplate and harness?

SparticleBrane gave the most direct (and correct) response (Yes). Dive Rite, OMS, etc. make dual bladder wings that are worth considering. Your instructor has not 'self-disqualified' on the basis of the dual bladder wing recommendation, which is reasonable. It is not infrequently recommended that redundant bouyancy be used when diving doubles, which could be a drysuit with a single bladder wing, or a dual bladder wing when diving wet. Yes, you can also carry a lift bag or SMB as redundant bouyancy. A third option is to use two single bladder wings, back to back, with one reversed (so the inflator hose is positioned over the right shoulder). But, a tec instructor who asks that you have a dual bladder wing when diving wet is following reasonably prudent guidelines, not necessarily agreed by everyone, but certainly not unheard of.

For ocean, doubles should be aluminum 80s, then you have no bouyancy issues

Using double AL80s instead of steels does minimize the issues, but a lot of people dive double steels in salt water. And, I don't feel quite as comfortable in 130ft of water, with double HP130s, in a wetsuit and a single bladder wing, as I do when I am using a dual bladder wing.

 

[bubbleblowindude]

Your 1000+ dives beats my 40ish dives any day. I do have to ask a few questions though, based on those 40ish dives. Don't be mad, I'm not trying to be confrontational. With my dbl al80's I'm neg on the front of the dive and barely neg at the end. If I had a bladder failure at 100ffw it would not be fun to try to swim up my kit. With steel dbl95's I'll be like 19lb's neg just on the tanks. I'd have to ditch my tanks. Some kind of redundancy seems like a better way to skin that cat than just relying on balance and proficiency alone. I won't go into my buddy obligations .... but I've been taught redundant buoyancy is a necessity. If we don't use a redundant bladder, or have some other form of redundant buoyancy besides a drysuit then what do we do?

The short answer is that a set of alum 80's and a wet suit IS likely to be balanced. Everything else aside, if you are neutrally buoyant with a minimum amount of gas (200 psi lets say) at 10 feet at the end of your dive, then you are overweighted at the beginning of your dive by the weight of the gas in your tanks (approx 11 lbs), an amount easily swam to the surface. The other "variable" is your wet suit which will create bouyancy on the surface which will need to be compensated for by the addition of weight whether in the form of a ditchable weight belt, cannister light, or both. Once at depth, the suit compresses thereby creating a moderate "overweighted" condition. To discuss emergency procedures we need to analyze the possibilities: punctured wing, inoperable exhaust / inflate valve, and loss of "inflator elbow" (perhaps the most dire of circumstances). In the first case, even with a hole in the wing you can trap gas in the wing (given that you haven't been suckered into a "bungie" or elastic wing) with body position, or simply continue to add gas periodically. Worst case scenario, the elbow comes off, you ditch the ditchable weight making your kit "swimmable" to 10 feet where your suit expansion creates enough bouyancy to remain neuteral at your deco stop. Other options? Buddy assistance, SMB.

Regarding steel 95's and a wet suit....this is NOT an appropriate choice of tanks and a dry suit should be employed for all the above mentioned reasons. The additional weight of the tanks will not allow for neutral bouyancy and the addition of ditchable weight. Best advice? try it I've done so several times and the confidence you'll gain will be well worth the effort. Double bladder wings are a fix which prays on an irrational fear, or the diver who hasn't taken the time to properly develope his/her technique which will allow for minimum weighting. Perhaps the best advice of all?...check your BCD thoroughly before the dive, develope "equipment awareness" during the dive, and practice good technique during the dive minimizing the opportunity for the wing to become damaged. Thanx for your reply!

 

[mos11b1p]

Thanks for all the great input. It's been very educational.

 

[Lucy's Diver]

Sorry I can't afford to "try" (and apparently keep in my garage) multiple different sets of doubles to swap out based on what exposure protection I am wearing.

I have a set of steel 120s I dive in the north Atlantic with a drysuit and a double bladder wing (and an SMB and a lift bag). When doing a typical two dive day I just use the same set.

I am negative at the start of the dive. I am negative at the end of the dive. I have no ditchable weight (no weight at all). So far I have only dove this set up dry, and thus do not run a LP hose to the backup bladder - but it certainly can be orally inflated at depth if needed. Were I ever to dive this set up wet, I would run that LP hose and have the redundancy.

 

[bubbleblowindude]

I dont keep aluminum doubles in my garage either, but they are available in many of the locations I dive wet. I have even gone as far as taking bands and manifold with me, and twin the commonly available aluminum 80's. Diving steel 119's with a wet suit? bests wishes and god be with you!