double hose regulators

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1978davidw

Contributor
Messages
101
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19
Location
Unicoi TN
# of dives
200 - 499
Hey just wanted to introduce myself to the vintage forum i havent posted here before however i am interested in vintage diving equipment. I would like to someday have a double hose regulator---not one to look at i want one to use. I will be using an octo on my system for the safety factor however i do have some questions. First off is there any issue doing recreational depths with these regulators <132'? What would be some good models to look for that i can find parts to service myself? Like i said im not looking for something that looks like it came off the shelf, i actually prefer one that looks used. If anyone has something that fits this id be interesting in talking to you about a purchase if you are interested.

Thanks
David
 
I many case an octo can not easily be connected to some double hoses such as the single stage Mistrals. They are safe to recrational depths and beyond. The US Divers and Voit would be the preferred.
You can get most anything to repair and improve them here and also join the forum which is the largest repository for double hose information online.

Vintage Scuba - Vintage Scuba Gear at Vintage Double Hose
 
Hello David. First thing, get over to Vintage Scuba - Vintage Scuba Gear at Vintage Double Hose and do a bunch of reading. There is a wealth of information to be had there. For your first double hose reg I would recommend trying to find a US Divers Royal Aqua Master or a DA Aqua Master. These are two stage regs and are fairly common. They also have hooka ports which you can run low pressure hoses off of. They will also accept the Phoenix nozzle. You can read about that at Vintage Double Hose.
Bare in mind that a double hose regulator is a different animal then a single hose reg. For them to work correctly they require proper placement. That means having a back pack which allows the regulators cans to be between your shoulder blades. You will also have to learn how to clear one. No purge buttons here. All of that is fairly simple, but I would recommend starting out in a pool with someone who has had experience with these regs to start out if possible. Another possibility is the Portage Quarry event in Bowling Green Ohio. This is coming up in Mid August and it attracts vintage divers from all over the country. Talk about a wealth of information just walking around. It may be a road trip, but it will be worth it. There will be a lot of guys who will be willing to help and get you in the water.
One more thing to consider. Double hose diving is a disease. You will find out quickly that you can't just have one reg. Fair warning! Yarrrrrgh!

Jim
 
The DA Aquamaster has a hookah port on it that can be easily adapted for your low pressure port needs.

My biggest worry was how hard it would be to clear. It turned out to be extremely easy, thanks to the valves in the mouthpiece.

I intend to buy a Mistral next.

For rebuilding a DA Aquamaster, you will need:
New hoses
New mouthpiece
New wagon wheel valves (maybe new wagon wheels too)
New diaphragm
Service kit
Low pressure seat
High pressure seat

Also, if your model had the clips, ditch them for a compression ring.

Expect to spend about $150 for an Aquamaster on Ebay. You'll spend about another $200 rebuilding it. However, once it is rebuilt, it will not need that level of servicing again for some time, as many of the components will be silicone replacements that have a much better lifespan compared to the older rubber / neoprene stuff. They are VERY simple mechanically. I trust my DA Aquamaster more than I trust my Conshelf XIV, and the XIV is one of the greatest regulators ever built. However, Occam's Razor : A simpler device is more reliable.
 
i already service my own regulators as is. I know some of the new stuff that is out is nice but way over engineered. I have the new MK25/S600 scubapro but honestly cant tell any difference at 140 foot from my MK5/R109 unbalanced. I have dove these as independent doubles just to check the difference. I have always believed simple is better. Im ready to make the plunge but i just wanna make sure i get something that for one i can find parts for and one that preferably i can have a way to use a spg and an octo.

---------- Post Merged at 05:12 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 05:02 PM ----------

Oh and i was wondering if it was ok to use these on 3000 psi tanks as well?
 
Welcome to the world of DH diving.
Like Jim said, they are different, don't expect to just stick one on your BC and expect it to work well.....it will work but odds are you will not like it. A DH reg really needs the proper BP to get the best out of it. Do a search here and on VDH, myself and others have posted a lot on diving with DH regs over the years. I think Fred -8dust is in your neck of the woods, if he is close by he would be a great resource. Jim's suggestion on going to Portage is a really good one, some of the most active DH divers in the country will be there and knowing a lot of them personally, I am sure they would be happy to help you out. I love diving the old regs and encourage divers to try them but you do need to understand there is a learning curve and some different procedures that you need to understand to get the most enjoyment out of them.

I would limit your search for your first reg to 2 choices, the DA Aquamaster (aka DAAM- might as well start learning the acronyms :)) and the Royal Aquamaster (RAM). Those are the most common, easiest to get parts for, least cost and you can modify them with lots of goodies if you so choose later. Both are solid dependable regs that I have no problems taking to 100ft +. There are other great regs out there but they tend to cost more, Voits for example and with others, parts are harder to come by - Dacors, Healthways and Nemrods for example. One thing I have noticed is the later DAAMs and RAMs (70-72 models) that have the round labels tend to sell for a lot more than the square labels.....beats the dickens out of me why, they are the same reg inside as the older square label ones and personally, I think the older square label looks better. The point being, don't bid up a round label thinking it's better, it's not.

To KD8's list I would add a duckbill and hose clamps. I can about promise you the duckbill is shot in any reg you get. Unless you know exactly who the seller is, don't believe any of the "I hooked it up to a tank and it's in prefect working order" BS. Unless it has been gone through in the past few years I can pretty much promise you it's not in diving shape. To my knowledge, there are only 2 places in the US that still service the old regs so I also don't believe the " it was checked by a LDS and its good to go".

Another consideration is how you are going to handle gas management ? These old regs do not have HP ports so just hooking an SPG to them is not an option. You have 3 options, just use a tank with a J valve, use a tank with a SPG port (some old valves have this option) or use a banjo. Of these options, a banjo is the easiest if you swap tanks a lot. A banjo is an adapter that connects between the tank valve and the reg, allowing you to tap into the HP gas and use a SPG. Using a banjo requires the reg to have a certain kind of yoke. These are at times hard to come by unless the reg already has one but like anything else, there are options if you know where to look and who to ask.

---------- Post Merged at 05:26 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 05:20 PM ----------

i already service my own regulators as is. I know some of the new stuff that is out is nice but way over engineered. I have the new MK25/S600 scubapro but honestly cant tell any difference at 140 foot from my MK5/R109 unbalanced. I have dove these as independent doubles just to check the difference. I have always believed simple is better. Im ready to make the plunge but i just wanna make sure i get something that for one i can find parts for and one that preferably i can have a way to use a spg and an octo.


Most of us just dive old school and use neither- J valve works fine. The only way to go with all that is to add a Phoenix to a DA or RAM.
---------- Post Merged at 05:12 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 05:02 PM ----------

Oh and i was wondering if it was ok to use these on 3000 psi tanks as well?



The old yokes were not rated for 3000 but they seem to work fine at that pressure- at least DA and RAMs, the single stage regs like the Mistral don't work as well with the higher pressure. If you add a Phoenix, it's a non-issue, it comes with a 4k yoke.
 
Thanks Herman , and the rest of you guys, for the info especially which models are the easiest/least expensive to buy parts for. I do have several steel 72's i currently use diving, i have seven tanks 6 of em are 72's and 3 of em have J valves. What is this Phoenix that you are talking about? Can you post a link to one where i can look at it? i already had in mind to use a banjo fitting for the HP port.
 
Take a look at these links for full explanation of the Phoenix and explanation of the 3D model below.

Vintage Double Hose &bull; View forum - Phoenix Speciality Area

Vintage Double Hose &bull; View topic - 3D model of the Phoenix and the RAM guts.









PhoenixRAM3DMOD-IIIRev-1311-29-2-1.jpg



PhoenixRAM3DMOD-IIIRev-1311-29-2009.jpg




PhoenixRAM3DMOD-IIIRev-15cutsect-1.jpg



PhoenixRAM3DMOD-IIIRev-15cutsection.jpg


---------- Post Merged at 09:49 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 09:30 PM ----------

Here is a back plate specifically design for a double hose:
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/vi...mprove-double-hose-regulator-performance.html


Here is another interesting upgrade:
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/vintage-equipment-diving/414253-phoenix-hpr-royal-second-stage.html
 
Hi 1978davidw,

This page will give you an idea of what the transformation is like.it is due for an update to include the duckbill eliminator and a soon to be added replacement 2nd stage.

Pete
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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