DPV Price vs performance

[Air1234]

For the reason of all the good things that you said, I still think the BlackTip is a great first scooter.

The investment is small (in DPV $$$ terms).

The BT is very capable. For people just doing wreck and reef diving, they may never "outgrow" a BlackTip. Especially a BT with a 20Ah battery pack. It goes plenty deep. and you don't generally need really long run-time on a wreck dive. But, if you are diving a CCR on reef dives, yeah, you might eventually, maybe, get to the point of wanting longer runtime (though, a 3 hour reef dive is a pretty long dive, and are you really going to be on the trigger the whole time? So maybe you could really do 4 or more hours?)

For when you first start out cave diving with a DPV, do you really need more run time than a BT w/custom battery gives? I mean, with just 2 x Dewalt 12s, it has a 3 mile range. That means 5280' of penetration, 5280 out, and the same left in reserve. Does someone new to cave DPV really need more than that?

And with a 20Ah pack, your Third is even further penetration.

It seems to me like a BT is great for a first cave DPV. And when you are ready to do more penetration than that, then the BT becomes a good tow scooter to have when you buy your Genesis (or whatever). I think very few cave divers ever go far enough in that a BT (used as a backup/tow scooter) would not be able to get them back out. Some do, but VERY few.

ANY scooter could break, so you always have to plan your dive to accommodate a DPV that dies. That's true whether you're using a BT or a Genesis.

So, when your DPV does die in a cave, well, it's an inconvenience, right? Not an emergency.

Which suggests to me that, unless a BlackTip is something that is going to die often, then it's probably reliable enough for the range it offers. Yeah? And, while I don't like the reliability of any PTB-based scooter, I don't think the BT is so unreliable that it isn't suitable for cave DPV dives in its range.

Now, I could be all wrong. I am trained for cave diving, but not cave DPV use, yet. So, maybe I'm just wrong.

This all seems a lot like what I tell people about lights. You don't need a big canister light as your first light. Good a good cordless. When you get to the point of needing a big can light, then that cordless light will be a great backup, which you will need to have anyway.

Think you for this post it answered a lot of my questions. I am just getting started with DPV's. Eventually want it for caves.

 

[Air1234]

Is there anywhere to get a used Blacktip for starting out?

 

[Boarderguy]

Is there anywhere to get a used Blacktip for starting out?

You'd be potentially buying someone else's problems. They run about $500 less than new and occasional come with batteries. There is often no warranty at that point either. There are a few Facebook pages that people list them on.

www.facebook.com/groups/25563964926/?ref=share&mibextid=1uJsJG

 

[mr_v]

I am looking at the Tech model for the same reason. I figured I would learn on it and then upgrade when I take the cave DPV course.

I am reconsidering my BT Tech purchase. Simply put, if I buy a better scooter, take care of it, and sell it, say after 5-6 years, I'll be spending ~$30/dive to scoot around. So why not?

My approach assumes several things. First - I'll buy a scooter, use it for at least 5 years, probably replace a battery and then sell. Second, I'll keep diving at approximately the same rate. Third, if I were to buy a BT Tech, I'd go for Jona's battery pack which will make it a $3K DPV. If you consider long-term battery replacement costs and market demand for quality scooters, Seacraft, Genesis, Bonex, and Suex look reasonable.

Now, the low-tech approach would be UV-18 or N-19 - I consider these "under a grand" DPVs to be viable alternatives to BT Tech.

TL;DR - if you dive often and do the math, quality scooters make sense more that BT.

 

[mr_v]

You'd be potentially buying someone else's problems. They run about $500 less than new and occasional come with batteries. There is often no warranty at that point either. There are a few Facebook pages that people list them on.

www.facebook.com/groups/25563964926/?ref=share&mibextid=1uJsJG

Be careful. There were some gear scams even in these private groups. See the scammer thread in this subforum.

Cheap scams are all the rage as most people won't bother pursuing the perpetrators. A good BT Tech with batteries, charger, and from a non-scammer will probably run $1000+ anyway - there is some terminal value in these scooters, especially the recent editions.

 

[lermontov]

I am reconsidering my BT Tech purchase. Simply put, if I buy a better scooter, take care of it, and sell it, say after 5-6 years, I'll be spending ~$30/dive to scoot around. So why not?

My approach assumes several things. First - I'll buy a scooter, use it for at least 5 years, probably replace a battery and then sell. Second, I'll keep diving at approximately the same rate. Third, if I were to buy a BT Tech, I'd go for Jona's battery pack which will make it a $3K DPV. If you consider long-term battery replacement costs and market demand for quality scooters, Seacraft, Genesis, Bonex, and Suex look reasonable.

Now, the low-tech approach would be UV-18 or N-19 - I consider these "under a grand" DPVs to be viable alternatives to BT Tech.

TL;DR - if you dive often and do the math, quality scooters make sense more that BT.

I think it depends one what you are using it for especially if a failure is potentially life threatening - if your deep in the back of the cave for example - if your using to play around and have fun then a cheaper one his fine and perhaps is easier to sell as an entry level scooter.

 

[lostsheep]

But so far I've only had negative experiences with the company

^^^this

They’ve burned my friends and I too many times for me to ever give them money again.

 

[broncobowsher]

the black Tip travel has a rating of 100.5 m - has anyone been deeper with one

If you are looking to take a scooter deeper than 100m...
The low cost entry level scooter isn't the right choice.

 

[passedoutwookie]

I'll chime in as a BT Tech owner with my experience. I was able to pick one up new in the box, but about a year old, for $1200 last year. I had some 9ah dewalt batteries already, so it seemed like a good buy for me as a new DPV user. I upgraded the handle and added a gopro/light mount. I was able to get it trimmed out almost perfectly (still working on it a bit). Generally I will do two dives a day with about an hour of trigger time each and my batteries will still be around a half charge at the end of the day. I have not had any functional issues with mine.

The bad: I don't like having to take the nose cone off every time I want to pull the batteries. It isn't super easy. One of my buddies has an older BT Tech and he has had issues with the battery balancing. We found that one of the pins on the connectors had come unclipped and once we fixed that he has not had issues. However, that was really frustrating for him, especially when it would act up on a dive. Diving with buddies who have higher end scooters, I do have to kick it up a gear to keep up, but this isn't a super negative aspect for me at this point (as a relatively new user). I don't mind cruising at a slower speed and working on technique and enjoying the scenery.

Long term, yes I will likely want to upgrade, but I can see the BT Tech serving me well for a few years until I get to that point. Overall I think if you can be patient and shop until you find a good deal it is definitely a good buy for a beginner.

 

[macado]

This is the second issue I've had with it. The first time they kept insisting that the flooding tube section was due to operator error, even though I explained to them that I'm super careful when it comes to gear and o-rings (since I take a $10,000 camera setup in the water most dives). They eventually found "manufacturing defects" in their tail sections that was causing it to flood.

When it works, it works great. But so far I've only had negative experiences with the company

Yes unfortunately Dive Xtras likes to point the blame at end users. I'm fairly certain one of mine flooded through the LCD screen. Truth be told, given their popularity I am sure they do have a lot of user/operator error.

While it is easy to damage the sealing surfaces if you're not careful (The same thing could ultimately be said about any scooter), I've seen some defects from factory on the tubes that caused small leaks.

I know I probably sound like a broken record here but they are capable scooters at their price point but their quality control / build quality leaves a lot to be desired. Every Blacktip I've seen has had minor build differences; They build no two alike. I guess it's asking a bit much for a $2100 USD scooter. Again, I'm not trying to compare it to an $8000-$1000 scooter.

As already mentioned, you should always plan for a scooter failure on a dive. Either have enough gas to swim out or include a tow scooter in your plans. While scooters/DPVs are not rocket science they have the ability to get people very far distances that one cannot normally swim and you can get yourself in real trouble as a result.