Dumpvalve location

[GyroHip]

Hi All,

I would like to know the reasoning for placing the dumpvalve so that it faces down while in a horisontal position.

If it is so that the little rope will not get caught on anything, I don't understand how it can be a likely problem since the tank protrude way past the length of the rope. Further more a little weight worked into the rope design will keep it from wondering around. (I have a design for this if any of the manufacturers would like to contact me )

Surely the function of the dumpvalve is to dump air and if this is its main function should it not be placed where it can used the most effectively?

I tried a DIR setup this weekend, after doing some reading on the subject and at this point would like to understand the reasoning behind some of the steps/setup. Some makes sence other not, so I am looking forward to straight forward advice and explanation.

Thanks

 

[GUEdiver]

Hi GyroHip,

First and foremost (if you haven't done this already), I recommend that you purchase the book "Doing It Right: The Fundamentals of Better Diving" from the GUE website. Second, find a DIR-Fundamentals course that you can attend. It will "open the floodgates" and allow you to learn directly from those who can answer all these questions in detail.

Re: the positioning of the dump valve, I believe it is low and on the inside of the wing to provide easy access/reach. Your left hand is used for buoyancy control, either for adding air to the wing or dumping through the lower dump valve or the corrugated hose. If the dump valve were on the other side (top or back) it would be harder to reach.

One of the GUE instructors I took a class from recommended this tip for easy dumping with the lower valve. First, reach back and find the valve itself. Close your fingers around the outer edge of the valve (like you are "ok"ing it). Now bring your fingers up and over the valve and you will get the dump string every time (this works even with dry gloves). Now to dump, do not pull the string straight out from the center of the valve, as doing so (in a horizontal body position) only pulls the valve downward and away from the air you are trying to vent. Instead, pull the dump string upward and to the side, as if pulling it back toward your tank. Now the valve is directed up where the air in the bladder is. This technique also helps with similar dump valves on other BCDs. I've passed this tip on to a number of folks and it works wonderfully.

I hope you keep asking good questions like this and will continue exploring ways to improve your skills. Dive safe & often.

 

[GyroHip]

Thanks for the reply, GUEdiver,

I have been doning some reading and are diving with people how have done the GUE fundamentals. I will be doing the course in November and therefore are preparing.

That being said, I still question the logic behind some practises. Which I don't see as a negative, since DIR could only have been developed through questioning standards as well.

I had no problem to find the dumpvalve and even worked out that the left side location is to aid muscle memory, lefthand for air ext. What I did find difficult is dumping all the air in the BC with out a change for my horisontal orientation.

I will tried it some more in the coming weeks, but for now it would make so much more sense to place the valve on the top side. (form follows function, i.e. the function is for the valve to dump air, the best place to do this is, is to be located where air would naturally escape for a given shape/orientation).

Not being stubborn, but for now I am still of the presuation that moving the dumpvalve would be a better design. If there are some ground breaking reason for its current location I would be happy to learn about it.

Regards

 

[GUEdiver]

Sounds good, GyroHip. Your thinking and questioning is good because it will only ensure that you are always considering the best way to do things, rather than following the pack. Experiment with the dump valve string "pull to the side and up" trick that I mentioned the next time you have the wing in the water. And drill your Fundamentals intructor when your class rolls around! Best wishes for awesome diving.

 

[Reinoud]

Hi All,

I would like to know the reasoning for placing the dumpvalve so that it faces down while in a horisontal position.

It is not facing down. A wing should be a little broader than your tank(s). When there is a little air in your wing, it will fold "up" around the tanks. So the dump valve will be at the side of your tank, near the top of the wing (when you are in horizontal position). In this way you can use it to dump air without the need to lift your left shoulder like you would have to do when using the "normal" way.
If you have a wing that is too big, the dumpvale might not be at the top

 

[Jonathan]

On my DIR-F it was the first time I had used the dump valve on the bum to try and do the buoyancy control - previously I had used my dry suit or the hose dump for this.

I found that it did not work for me. When I asked for some advice they played back the video and to my surprise there were bubble coming out. However, if the video had stayed on me they would have seen me still going for the surface and using the hose.

When I told the instructor this he just referred to the video and said - see it works! Enf of discussion.

I'm back to my original methods as I don't like the surface when I am meant to be under water.

Jonathan

 

[frase]

On my DIR-F it was the first time I had used the dump valve on the bum to try and do the buoyancy control - previously I had used my dry suit or the hose dump for this.

I found that it did not work for me. When I asked for some advice they played back the video and to my surprise there were bubble coming out. However, if the video had stayed on me they would have seen me still going for the surface and using the hose.

When I told the instructor this he just referred to the video and said - see it works! Enf of discussion.

I'm back to my original methods as I don't like the surface when I am meant to be under water.

Jonathan

Did you try and "roll" your upper body to make sure the air moved towards the dump valve?

The wings are designed to allow the gas to travel freely from one side to the other. As one of the previous replies has stated, the wing will fold round the cylinder. Gas in the right hand side needs to be "moved" to the left hans side in order to vent it.
A very subtle roll of the right shoulder down will cause the gas to shift from teh right to the left...ie flow up...to where it can be vented.

 

[Jonathan]

I tried all sorts of things including squeezing back with my arms to push the air out - whilst head down, right shoulder down. Not pretty and in my mind not effective.

With my shoulder mounted dump valve on my dry suit all it needs is a little twitch - much more effective.

My main concern was GUEDiver's quote:
allow you to learn directly from those who can answer all these questions in detail

Without even trying to think I can come up with 3 occaisions when I found this comment to be BS. The dump valve being one. Also any number of questions were answered with "because that is our way" with no real attempt at an explanation.

My message is really - please, please, please do not think that attending a DIR-F course will fix all your woes and answer all your questions. It will not.

The message being given out over the internet is that it will. Fortunately I attended the course more out of curiosity and with an open mind.

DIR-F is more like PPB course which is a pre-requisite for their other courses, which sound very interesting although not on my radar at the moment - for personal reasons and not diving reasons. If I get back into technical diving and want to go the tri-mix route then I will consider GUE again - hopefully by then they will have a few more than 20 active instructors as it will be a few years yet and I have a more reasonable source of helium! (Although that too is running out so the price will probably go up!!)

Jonathan

 

[maccajim]

Johnayhon
Very_interested_to_know_if_your_dirf_instructor_had_trouble_using_his/her_dump_valve_because_if_so_it_must_be_as_you_say_a_design_fault!_and_not_just_your_technique_or_lack_thereof????

 

[reubencahn]

I tried all sorts of things including squeezing back with my arms to push the air out - whilst head down, right shoulder down. Not pretty and in my mind not effective.

With my shoulder mounted dump valve on my dry suit all it needs is a little twitch - much more effective.

My main concern was GUEDiver's quote:
allow you to learn directly from those who can answer all these questions in detail

Without even trying to think I can come up with 3 occaisions when I found this comment to be BS. The dump valve being one. Also any number of questions were answered with "because that is our way" with no real attempt at an explanation.

My message is really - please, please, please do not think that attending a DIR-F course will fix all your woes and answer all your questions. It will not.

The message being given out over the internet is that it will. Fortunately I attended the course more out of curiosity and with an open mind.

DIR-F is more like PPB course which is a pre-requisite for their other courses, which sound very interesting although not on my radar at the moment - for personal reasons and not diving reasons. If I get back into technical diving and want to go the tri-mix route then I will consider GUE again - hopefully by then they will have a few more than 20 active instructors as it will be a few years yet and I have a more reasonable source of helium! (Although that too is running out so the price will probably go up!!)

Jonathan

I would complain on the quality assurance survey they make you complete to get the card. I believe GUE actually reads these things and that at least one or two instructors are no longer certified as such. My instructor happily answered any and all questions, and I would have been p*ssed off if he hadn't. That's why I was there: to learn and have my questions answered.

As to the dump, I found rolling my hip to be more effective than rolling my shoulder. However, I am using a single tank wing. If you're using a doubles wing, I think you would probably need to get your shoulder up. I find the dumps on my wing no more difficult to use than those on my old Scubapro Classic. However, I am diving in relatively thin, 5mm, wetsuits, so I'm not carrying a ton of weight, nor do I need to put a lot of gas in my wing.