Dutch Springs Incident

[SeaCobra]

One of the skills covered is loss of buoyancy ascent and assist. It's where I disconnect the students inflator and have their buddy bring them to the surface and keep them afloat until they dump weights, reconnect inflator, or ditch the gear.

Hmmm, bad plan. I am not sure of the SEI or Y standards, but physically disconnecting a student's LPI from their bc in an open water environment is something that I pray never happens. Deflating a bc and simulating a failure is fine, but keep the lpi connected just in case.

We also do an unconscious diver from depth in OW class.

Not a bad idea, also a NAUI standard.QUOTE]

Jeff

 

[letterboy]

Plenty

LOL I dig your humor . . .

 

[Jim Lapenta]

With an OW diver I agree but these are Advanced Classes. There is nothing prohibiting me from doing this. And the student does have backup inflation. They can choose to try to inflate orally, or rely on their buddy. This exercise is not dangerous, you do not need an lp hose to dive. We teach oral inflation of the bc in OW class. they can also choose to ditch weights but this is again more dangerous and discouraged. The point of this is to train them and their buddy to not panic and rely on each other to assist in an emergency. Had the buddy of the diver that passed at Dutch had some instruction in this the other diver might still be alive. The one post stated that the buddy was hanging onto her octo to try to keep her up. Had they been in proper position and trained in such an emergency the buddy would have been close enough to possibly keep her up and assist with ditching her weight and sorting things out. Then again proper weighting can also go along way towards this. The Buddy Skills and Assist is the last dive we do. It is also by this point that we have adjusted weights so that they are properly weighted and the diver can, if necessary, swim their rig up with out the use of the bc. I see your point but for class purposes I don't want them to be even tempted to use the power inflator. I am also within arms reach of both divers the entire ascent.

 

[Dave in PA]

The diver in the OP has passed away. Here is local newspaper blurb: and pasted for posterity.

Woman hurt in scuba-diving accident at Dutch Springs has died, coroner says - lehighvalleylive.com

by Express-Times
Thursday September 10, 2009, 2:14 PM
A 47-year-old Luzerne County woman died early today in connection with a scuba-diving accident that happened Sunday at Dutch Springs in Lower Nazareth Township, according to the Lehigh County Coroner's Office.

<victim>, 47, of White Haven, Pa., was pronounced dead at 2:07 this morning. After an autopsy this morning, Lehigh County Coroner Scott Grim attributed the death to drowning. He ruled the death an accident, according to a news release.

Grim said the accident happened at 11:38 a.m. Sunday at Dutch Springs, a spring-fed quarry and aquatics park at 4733 Hanoverville Road that's a popular spot for scuba divers.

Grim said Brodie suffered a brain injury due to a lack of oxygen caused by the diving accident.

 

[jhupka]

I see good points in all posts with the training, but is seems simply by training to put your reg back in your mouth would prevent swallowing water and give you air to breathe as you sink with your non buoyant bc. Yes I speak about common sense but rereading these posts that could very well could have prevented this tragic accident (though I do not have knowledge just speculation) or giving of an alternate air source from the buddy.

 

[I Dive]

One of the skills covered is loss of buoyancy ascent and assist. It's where I disconnect the students inflator and have their buddy bring them to the surface and keep them afloat until they dump weights, reconnect inflator, or ditch the gear.

Hmmm, bad plan. I am not sure of the SEI or Y standards, but physically disconnecting a student's LPI from their bc in an open water environment is something that I pray never happens. Deflating a bc and simulating a failure is fine, but keep the lpi connected just in case.

We also do an unconscious diver from depth in OW class.

Not a bad idea, also a NAUI standard.QUOTE]

Jeff

Help me understand the safety concern here. Between orally inflating the BC on the surface (either the diver or their buddy), ditching weight, and using the buddy's BC for buoyancy if necessary, I don't see a safety concern. A standards violation is possible, but if so, I don't really see why. However, if it is a standards violation, it should not be done...

 

[SeaCobra]

Help me understand the safety concern here. Between orally inflating the BC on the surface (either the diver or their buddy), ditching weight, and using the buddy's BC for buoyancy if necessary, I don't see a safety concern. A standards violation is possible, but if so, I don't really see why. However, if it is a standards violation, it should not be done...

The safety concern here is that you have a student (albeit in and Adv. class) that does not have access to their working power inflator. And the same results can be achieved by simulating the failure, especially in environments where the vis may not be the best, or perhaps you are working from a submerged platform where the bottom may be deeper.

I have been a NAUI instructor for 21 years, all in PA and most of my checkouts are done at the local training lake, also have been a NAUI Tec instructor since '99. In my tech training we have simulated emergencies, such as primary reg failure, loss of buoyancy, etc. I have flashcards to tell the diver what problem to solve.

Even during the cave training I took (just intro) with the lights out air share. While I was breathing from another diver's long hose, mine still worked and was accessible. My lights still worked and were accessible. So, if at any point in time I became uncomfortable, or another problem arose, I still had all of my tools, could turn on a light or go back to my reg and call off the skill. Regroup, learn from it and do it again.

So, during a simulation the other options are still there; orally inflating, help from buddy, ditching weights, but as an added safety measure the lpi still works and is accessible. A working lpi si also accesible to the instructor, just in case.

Jeff

 

[openmindOW]

The safety concern here is that you have a student (albeit in an Adv. class) that does not have access to their working power inflator. And the same results can be achieved by simulating the failure, especially in environments where the vis may not be the best, or perhaps you are working from a submerged platform where the bottom may be deeper.

And, remember, some divers are using Air2s or AirSources, so disconnecting the hose can be a bad idea with those divers.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I have been thinking about what you all have been saying about the lp hose. I can see your point and as a result will take your advice and simulate the failure without the disconnect. And
seacobra is correct. If they need to use the lp we then can stop the exercise, determine why it was needed, make the adjustment and repeat the skill.

As to the air2 issue. I use guidelines for equipment for my class that are based on the iantd gear recommendations outlined by Tom Mount in his "tao of underwater survival". Some of the exercises I require would be difficult for a diver using an air2 unless they can prove to me prior to the course that they are fully capable of using it as required. The 100 foot no mask air share swim while maintaing a horizontal position and buoyancy could be rough for someone not totally comfortable with the air2 . As could the no mask air share swim and ascent. Can they effectively manage a buddy who is unable to see, while sharing air, and maintain contact with them and an ascent line? I have used an integrated inflator and don't like that I have to take it out of my mouth to vent it. Especially if I'm also hanging on to a diver who may be on the verge of panic. And using an ascent line. But again if the diver is totally competent with the air2 they can use it if the buddy is also ok with it. If not we are adding a standard octo for the class. I don't sell or recommend an air2 type device. If a student buys one that is up to them and I'll train them in it's use if they ask. However I will strongly urge a student of mine not to purchase an integrated inflator and go with standard octo.

 

[asimpkinsjr]

Actually this kind of thing may be more common that one thinks...after I finished my open water dives for my SDI card on my 5th dive of that weekend I was on a dive with my father in law and his buddy who had the buoy in tow I went to deflate to descend and the LPI popped right off the hose, scary thing for a new guy like myself I almost shat my wetsuit, luckily for me my father in law was newly minted a rescue diver and his buddy was an instructor... after this I had my LDS double zip tie all my hoses. I have a Hollis wing and plate. After they towed me back to the beach we where able to reconnect the LPI to the hose but as I mention above I had all the zip ties replaced and doubled after that incident.