Sometimes, humans introduce foreign species in an environment to control another. and the first become uncontolable so we have to introduce another one. We are really f*@#in& our planet.
Ecological debate on the sustainability of whaling.
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Humuhumunukunukuapua'a
Contributor
wardric:Wrong for that example, as long as human memory can recall, there were never any predators on that island. Meanest beast are foxesIt was a bad example though because deer were introduced on that island (which is huge) first. But I dont mind being the predator. We are predators, we should accept it and it's not bad. It's life.
Right on. I guess my point is that whenever you see a system out of balance like that, it has to do with human interference. And usually that interference was done thinking it would do no harm.
That's why I find claims that the current levels of whaling are sustainible to be presumptuous. It strikes me as saying "Well, we got it wrong nearly every time before when we messed with natural systems, but THIS TIME, we know better". Yeah, right.
Humuhumunukunukuapua'a
Contributor
wardric:
See Hawaii for a LOT of examples...
Humuhumunukunukuapua'a:
I agree, but in certain cases (like deer in my region), the numbers are known, precise and we can have an accurate portrait of it's sustainability. We can even estimate it by the number of car hits on the roads
In the oceans on a worldwide scale though, it's much more difficult. If in theory, we would have those numbers, I would not see any moral restrictions to hunting them but we are talkin' about theory therefore dont know s@%¤
Humuhumunukunukuapua'a:
I'm curious and interested about it, any good sources to suggest me?
Humuhumunukunukuapua'a
Contributor
Quick Google search turned this one up:
http://www.hawaii.gov/dlnr/Aliens2.html
One example of exactly what you are talking about. Rats were introduced to the islands accidentaly from ships. To control them, mongoose were introduced intentionally. Turns out, mongoose sleep at night when rats are active. The mongoose don't kill rats, but they do kill a lot of native Hawaiian birds who are adapted to an island with far fewer predators than most places on Earth. Doh! It's an incredibly fragile place and very susceptible to damage from invasive species. Sadly, an enormous amount of damage has already been done.
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly...I don't know why she swallowed the fly....
Sorry to get off-topic
http://www.hawaii.gov/dlnr/Aliens2.html
One example of exactly what you are talking about. Rats were introduced to the islands accidentaly from ships. To control them, mongoose were introduced intentionally. Turns out, mongoose sleep at night when rats are active. The mongoose don't kill rats, but they do kill a lot of native Hawaiian birds who are adapted to an island with far fewer predators than most places on Earth. Doh! It's an incredibly fragile place and very susceptible to damage from invasive species. Sadly, an enormous amount of damage has already been done.
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly...I don't know why she swallowed the fly....
Sorry to get off-topic
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The suffering element of the whale slaughter should not be overlooked.
In arguing points you are passionate about, I believe it is important to perceive the tipping point where you actually do more damage to your cause.
It is a bit of a political point.
In arguing points you are passionate about, I believe it is important to perceive the tipping point where you actually do more damage to your cause.
It is a bit of a political point.
By bringing emotions to such a thread, one can only be biaised because of the Bambi effect.
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yea, yea, I have been told that. International perception of whale kills will play a big role in how this plays out "where the rubber meets the road". I dare say it will even affect the numbers you see.
Public relations also plays a big part here in our public awareness campaign on introduced alien species here in Hawaii. if you wish to ignore this component, be my guest, but it is a little like living under a rock. The "bambi effect" probably has a little to do with our current little issue with all the iguanas brought in as pets and then released into the ecosystem. Human interaction (including the emotional component) with the environment plays a role, even if bean counters of the world don't have a column on their ledgers to tally these intangible forces.
oh, sorry, off topic again.
Public relations also plays a big part here in our public awareness campaign on introduced alien species here in Hawaii. if you wish to ignore this component, be my guest, but it is a little like living under a rock. The "bambi effect" probably has a little to do with our current little issue with all the iguanas brought in as pets and then released into the ecosystem. Human interaction (including the emotional component) with the environment plays a role, even if bean counters of the world don't have a column on their ledgers to tally these intangible forces.
oh, sorry, off topic again.
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