Emergency O2-- decisions, decisions

[Doc Harry]

...have run something in excess of 500 codes...

I think you've run a few more codes than me!

 

[KrisB]

I think you've run a few more codes than me!

You make it sound like it's sorta like the number of logged dives!

 

[Wildcard]

In days of old, we had to run everything, viable or not. We ran a lot of codes then.

 

[nereas]

For the overwhelming majority of patients treated this may be true. However, a non-rebreather does not provide 100% O2 which can be achieved with a demand mask. Also, a constant flow setup like a nonrebreather is very wasteful. If you expect a long time before handing the patient off to EMS you might be concerned with conserving your oxygen supply.

They will also show you the oxygen bottle they have in their unit which is significantly large than anything you'd consider taking diving.

Divers have needs which your normal EMS units don't have to consider so I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the use of demand valves.

So, I take it that Cornfed-Drew has changed his identity?

CIA stuff??

 

[cornfed]

So, I take it that Cornfed-Drew has changed his identity?

CIA stuff??

What?

 

[nereas]

What?

I tried the demand "mask" that DAN provides with their O2 kit, and it is hard to breathe with that even on a good day.

So I believe the best thing to use is either the bag or the tubing (forgot what that is called) that comes with the DAN O2 kit.

I am surprised that with 2500+ posts that you rarely post anymore. You must be busy in Iraq doing government stuff, like so many other young Americans right now?

 

[cornfed]

I tried the demand "mask" that DAN provides with their O2 kit, and it is hard to breathe with that even on a good day.

So I believe the best thing to use is either the bag or the tubing (forgot what that is called) that comes with the DAN O2 kit.

I've heard about people using a standard second stage and putting a mask on the patient to keep them from breathing in through their hose. This gives you 100% and you get a better breathing regulator. I stand by what I said, you need to be concerned about having enough oxygen to reach EMS. This is the more important reason (in my unqualified opinion) to use a demand valve than achieving 100%.

I am surprised that with 2500+ posts that you rarely post anymore.

You to will grow tied of having the same arguments over and over and over...

 

[nereas]

I've heard about people using a standard second stage and putting a mask on the patient to keep them from breathing in through their hose. This gives you 100% and you get a better breathing regulator. I stand by what I said, you need to be concerned about having enough oxygen to reach EMS. This is the more important reason (in my unqualified opinion) to use a demand valve than achieving 100%...

That is an excellent idea, which I would never have thought of. Thanks!

...You to will grow tied of having the same arguments over and over and over...

I have found so far that re-arguing issues keeps my mental alertness sharp. I am an old man, and I do not retain things in my mind unless I practice continually. Since I do not live in Florida or Hawaii or Australia where you can scuba every day, this website is the next best thing, although I fear this is also construed as cyber-diving, and as such is somehow looked down upon by active technical divers. Even so, it helps.

 

[KrisB]

I tried the demand "mask" that DAN provides with their O2 kit, and it is hard to breathe with that even on a good day.

So I believe the best thing to use is either the bag or the tubing (forgot what that is called) that comes with the DAN O2 kit.

You must have a dud. I've breathed off both the MTV-100 and the standard DAN demand valve and they both breathe easier than any scuba regulator I've used...

The downside to using a "standard" scuba 2nd stage is that it needs to be O2-friendly and O2-clean. Very few manufacturers are making these, I'm told, and in order for it to TRULY be O2-clean you have to ship it back to the manufacturer for its repair/maintenance in the clean room.

 

[Gene_Hobbs]

I've heard about people using a standard second stage and putting a mask on the patient to keep them from breathing in through their hose. This gives you 100% and you get a better breathing regulator. I stand by what I said, you need to be concerned about having enough oxygen to reach EMS. This is the more important reason (in my unqualified opinion) to use a demand valve than achieving 100%.

Design of valves like the MTV-100 do have max airway pressures, scuba regs do not... (for unconscious pts) DAN-Europe also sells DIN O2 regs that can flow O2 to non-rebreather masks (not legal in US).

Paper:

Poulton, Littleton, and Raudenbush. Modification of scuba regulator for IPPV. Undersea Biomed Res. 1985 Jun;12(2):215-9. RRR ID: 3033

and abstracts:

Mutzbauer and Neubauer. MODIFICATION OF THE CLOSED CIRCUIT UNDERWATER BREATHING APPARATUS LAR V MAKES IT SUITABLE FOR CARDIOPULMONARY RESUSCITATION (CPR). 1997 UHMS Abstract RRR ID: 311

Mutzbauer, Tetzlaff, Mueller, and Neubauer. NEW METHODS FOR ARTIFICIAL VENTILATION DURING CARDOPULMONARY RESUSCITATION FOR DIVERS ON CLOSED CIRCUIT REBREATHERS. 1998 UHMS Abstract RRR ID: 706