Experience vs certification

[Meredith78]

Hi, new to this board so if this isn't the right place for this, please redirect me.

But I am recently OW certified, have 15 dives, and am off to Oahu next month on vacation. I plan to do lots of diving. But I'm not sure whether I should focus more on just getting more experience, doing regular dives, or if I should do my advanced OW, to get some more training, and then do some more dives for experience. I'm not super confident, especially when it comes to my navigation abilities, so I do want to work on that.

So much of it comes down to money. I guess my real question is, how important is AOW for a beginner? Should I just dive and get some more dives under my belt first and not worry about it? Or is the training worth it? I can always do my AOW locally too.

 

[AndyNZ]

The way I'd think about it is this - which one is going to get you to do more diving and have more fun?

Most AOW courses are designed to "advance your training" not turn you in to an advanced diver, so there is a risk that if you leave your AOW too late that it won't seem like you will learn anything. If you do it later (e.g. 100 dives) then you'd probably want to hunt around and choose a great instructor who will be able to add value to you - in fact, you probably want to do that anyway!

If you're not confident in your navigation, well.... an AOW will only give you one dive where you practice navigation. This may help, but at the same time you can just go out and practice your navigation to improve it. Even on a guided dive, you can start watching the guide and working out how they navigate, whether it's by compass or using natural features and see whether you can work out when you'll make it back to the boat etc. You also have to ask yourself, is your lack of confidence in navigation simply you aren't focusing on it (yet) because you haven't got the level of comfort in the water generally?

I'm mostly just giving you things to think about, as there is no right answer to your question... you have to work out what is right for you, and responses here may help you do that.

I will tell you what I would do in your situation - which is I would enjoy my holiday. As a rule, I don't do courses on a holiday trip if I have the option of doing them at home.

This would also have the advantage that you can take your time with the AOW, and hunt around and find the right instructor. It's an unfortunate truth that not all instructors are thinking about your needs, some are just doing a job. If you pick an instructor at random (i.e at a holiday destination via the internet) you've got a 50/50 chance of getting a course that doesn't add value at all. Whether you chose to do the course on holiday or at home, expect to have to do some research and invest some time to picking an instructor.

And most of all, enjoy it and have a great time diving!

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Oahu in February is going to probably give you a nearly 100' first dive on most boat trips. The predominant or signature boat dives mostly all start with a deep-ish wreck; the Sea Tiger - sand ~123', deck ~100', the Yo-257 - sand ~110', deck ~85', the Mahi - sand ~95', deck ~80', Airplane Canyon - plane at 95', stuff to see down to 112', the Corsair - sand ~110', Baby Barge - interesting cavern below nearly 90'.

Second dives on the boat trips are typically shallow reef with the best sites having some cavern / lava tube, the storm drain pipe is kind of deep given the typical SI and drifting kind of deep reef or shallow wall is likely after the Corsair and Barge.

You can do all those dives with the same dive shop, because most dive boats sell seats to most dive shops. These are all guided dives, so watching the guide (who is almost always an instructor) can help with your navigation, but wreck and drift dives have no navigation. If you chose the right shop to do all your diving with a package deal could include AOW and more dives for not much more than the dives by them self.

Shore diving that time of the year is pretty limited; Kahe Point and Magic Island; a power plant cooling water outlet pipe that is interesting and a dive off a peninsula that was originally a land fill adjacent to a busy harbor channel that is the outlet of the most polluted canal in the State. I have led great dives at both, but only a couple times at Magic Island in many, many tries and the gear hump from the parking lot is a really good work out.

 

[Meredith78]

Oahu in February is going to probably give you a nearly 100' first dive on most boat trips.

Does this mean that to really safely enjoy a lot of Oahu dives, I will need advanced certification? I've never gone more than 60 ft as I am a beginner.

 

[paddler3d]

Does this mean that to really safely enjoy a lot of Oahu dives, I will need advanced certification? I've never gone more than 60 ft as I am a beginner.

There is no SCUBA police out there that are going to stop you from going deeper than 60ft.

Personally I waited until I had around 140 dives before I got my AOW and I had been beyond that 60ft limit numerous times.

Let the DM know your training level. You'll likely find when you get out there in the warm clear blue water, 100ft is nothing. Keep an eye on your air. The table in front of me shows 25 minutes of NDL, but I can guarantee you're going to run out of air before NDL. Also keep in mind that you don't have to go as deep. There is nothing saying you and your buddy can't hang a bit higher in the water column.

Do a mental check. If you are not feeling it, don't do it. Your mind is half the challenge.

BTW, one of my first dives after certification was in the Bahamas and it was to 112fsw. It was off Eluthra and the dive was called 'The Arch'...it still ranks as one of my top 5 dives.

 

[Sloth]

Does this mean that to really safely enjoy a lot of Oahu dives, I will need advanced certification? I've never gone more than 60 ft as I am a beginner.

Most dive ops on Oahu have shallow afternoon trips to depths rarely greater then 60'. If you have never been deeper then 60' then I wouldn't recommend going deeper in a new dive environment unless it is in the confines of a class or unless you are already super confident in your dive abilities.

IMO do the shallower dives. If you get bored with the shallow dives and you have the time then look into doing your advanced class.

For me personally I don't move up to the next level until I have become bored with the diving I'm doing at my current level.

Mark

 

[Codiak]

"There is no SCUBA police out there that are going to stop you from going deeper than 60ft. "
This is true of many dive locations around the world... However, there are in-fact places that will prevent you getting on their boats for dives that exceed your certification.

Meredith,
AOW will expose you to new things and may generate enough interest to take the full advanced classes, such as Deep and LowVis. But I'd be less worried about the training and just build more comfort with your diving, especially if your on vacation. Leave the class work for the weekdays at home!
As Halemano suggests pick a single operator/boat to do all your dives, this should build trust and increase your comfort with them allowing you to focus more on enjoying the coming dives. Call ahead and talk with the operators, tell them your skill level and listen to their recommendations: One I hope you will here is "we offer guided tours" or "a you can hire a dive master" I recommend you hire a guide or dive with the tour for the first day anyway.

Enjoy the diving and welcome to SB

Chuck

 

[elan]

"AOW is not a proxy for real experience, even an SSI instructor said so" (C) A. Hitler.

 

[RJP]

So much of it comes down to money. I guess my real question is, how important is AOW for a beginner? Should I just dive and get some more dives under my belt first and not worry about it? Or is the training worth it? I can always do my AOW locally too.

AOW is a function of

1.) what you make of it
2.) instructor quality/approach

As with any instruction, AOW will not MAKE you a better diver, but approached correctly it will teach you some things (skills, mindset, etc) that will allow you to BECOME a better diver. Making the connection between the two is up to you!

I did my AOW on Maui as logged dives #5 through #9 way back when. My thinking was a bit similar to yours: I was a new diver that knew I still had some learning to do. I talked to a few shops/instructors there and found a guy who I was comfortable with, who's philosophy - like mine at the time and even more-so now - was that AOW is not "advanced" but rather "OW-Part Two." Same as you I wanted to work on Nav, but also Buoyancy so we set up 5 specialties that made sense.

Also, I was travelling with my non-diving wife and kids, so had no buddy with me and was pretty sure I didn't want to deal with an instabuddy at that stage of my dive experience. It didn't hurt that the cost for the course was cheaper than signing up for 5 dives and paying for a private DM on even two of them.

Possibly got lucky too, as the instructor I had was very experienced, caring, a good local "guide" and just plain fun. Spent lots of time pre-dive doing knowledge reviews, really going through the concepts, talking about the dive, planning, etc. Then - unlike many AOW classes - he actually taught me the skills, helped me refine them, tweaked existing skills, etc. Many resort AOW's are sort of cursory versions of "monkey see, monkey do" and move on to next dive.

Not sure if this helps you at all, but I guess what I'm saying is that you need to think through what you want, set YOUR OWN expectations, and then find and instructor who you feel will meet them. I certainly wouldn't just sign up with a shop "sight unseen" and hope for the best.

Enjoy - Ray

 

[OceanEd]

I completely disagree with the last two posts. The AOW class will make you a better diver. If it is done correctly and the right electives are in the class then it will significantly help you to get a better foundation upon which you will practice your skills during all the dives you will be doing in the future for experience.

Practice does not make perfect. "Perfect practice makes perfect". I am amazed at the number of good, experienced divers that I get in my AOW classes that I can significantly "tune up" during those 5 dives so that their future diving is much, much better. The most glaring areas are buoyancy control and the amount of weight they are wearing. I always wish I could have gotten together with them sooner.

Another reason to take and AOW is that is significantly helps people gain more confidence in their own diving ability when they do the 5 dives with a diving professional. This seems to be your case.

I am not saying that you have to take the AOW while in Hawaii, but if you could find a good deal and fold it into your diving I think you would be making the right decision, especially if you get a good instructor who really gives you a great course. If you do not take it while on vacation, seriously doing so when you get home if you plan to keep doing a lot of diving.