Fail! Weekend Certify-

[Wantonmien]

Great questions. Sat. the water was great- just more of a bad experience with the instructors, got left twice on top of the water out in the Ocean. It was Sunday we got tossed over in the water.
The dive master was diving without gloves and the instructor I was going in the water with had no gloves on. I thought I would put my gloves on after I put on my fins, but left them on accident on the shore. The instructor didn't notice I didn't have them. When we were in the water walking in I noticed I didn't have them and told him, but he got upset so I told him he didn't have to go back up to get them I would dive without them even though my hands were cold, so we continued on until we got hit by that wave that was probably close to or over 10ft. It was well over our heads. We both went under. A rock was behind me it tripped me up. I think the rock cut me. I'm not sure what else it could of been, we were in the middle of some rocks.

*Like I said I didn't know I was bringing the gear, so when I found out I asked for him to write me down things I needed to remember, he went and brought out the directions and the equipment checklist- however he didn't discuss the importance of the difference an ice chest would make in the day, (it wasn't on the list) or a tarp, (it wasn't on the list) a chair!! (not on list) Chair is key out there- u need somewhere to sit comfortably and eat, and need something to eat- etc...

All those little things add up to a great experience

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As a matter of interest - who are the licensing group behind the Open Water course you were doing ? eg: PADI or similar ? Was the shop you used actually licensed to teach ?

 

[fisheater]

Sounds really bad.

I was certified at the Breakwater in Monterey a couple of years ago, in a driving rainstorm that kept almost everyone else away.

However, I had a GREAT time. The reason? An excellent instructor.

 

[GI0Ria]

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As a matter of interest - who are the licensing group behind the Open Water course you were doing ? eg: PADI or similar ? Was the shop you used actually licensed to teach ?

SSI - So yeah they are licensed, just a nightmare I suppose.

 

[Wantonmien]

SSI - So yeah they are licensed, just a nightmare I suppose.

With your experience it sound like their license should be revoked !!

Best of luck with the ongoing training over there anyway, and if all else fails, jump on a flight to Taiwan and we'll get you a good instructor, familiarity dives in a safe pool, then some clear blue ocean water of current 23 C + and pretty much guaranteed visibility of 20 m or more ..

Regards

 

[tregrrr]

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As a matter of interest - who are the licensing group behind the Open Water course you were doing ? eg: PADI or similar ? Was the shop you used actually licensed to teach ?

any one else see this turning into a decline of training standards thread??

Not that ANYONE will argue that minimalist training offered today is equivalent or superior to that which was offered in [-]eons[/-] decades past.... But the story as recounted by the OP smacks of poor crowd management skills by a shop churnming out too many OW students for the conditions and with the number of instructors available.

In dog breeding this is commonly called a puppy mill.

I know here, with the shop I was originally certified by, the practice was to team teach using a pair of fully experienced instructors and only 6 students IF I RECALL CORRECTLY. In the shop I worked with we only ever had 2-3 students max per class, so it really wasn't an issue keeping tabs of divers and keeping the group together.

Yes we do have new gear on for the first time in the OW, but, in any courses I have had anything to do with, this is explained and discussed during EVERY pool session. No the OW exposure suits do not take a chlorine bath, but the divers are ENGAGED in discussion about the differences to be expected. Also, Dive 1 of the PADI system is supposed to be a fun dive-- getting used to the feel of the kit on the surface and then going for a "follow me" exploration of the new world inbetween two qualified people. If the anxiety of average students is kept minimized through effective surface planning and an unhurried calm demeanor, that first dive can be very effective as a teaching tool.

Any time you stress a student without a BLOODY good reason (South African Zambezi spotted) IMHO you are just cutting your own wrists as an instructor. Rushing or pushing a student, I find tends to SLOW the whole program down in the end. Any extra time a student needs to get composure or bearings or whatever sorted at the surface has always, in my limited experience, paid off. The times there was a parent or significant other confounding matters by making a less than ideal candidate 'hurry up" have pretty much invariably resulted in failed dives with an end result of splitting the two and the next dive working out much better. That in my mind is adequate argument for trying adamantly to keep initial stress (such as the OP's surface troubles) as minimized as possible....

So, again I suggest that you look into finding another shop once the dust settles. A key question you need to be asking of any future potential shop is what are their maximum class sizes and instructor/student RATIOS?" There are limits imposed by the certifying agencies, but in temperate water, such as what you describe, I doubt that classes of the Maximum allowable size would benefit you.

 

[Peter_C]

I was out there both days. We had all the tables set up at the top of the stairs. You are right Saturday was a nice day. Sunday our dive team that has hundreds of dives between us called our dive before ever suiting up. Personally I feel they should not have had beginners out in those conditions. I watched many people get knocked down, and the chances of us getting knocked down were going to be pretty high. No one is to blame for falling down in those conditions. I have eaten it at Breakwater and lost my mask to the surf. What is the fun of diving in those conditions?

Hopefully you will be certified soon enough, and be able to enjoy diving with your son.

FWIW there is a small deli at the other side of the parking lot near the launch ramp.

The first and second photos were taken less than a minute apart, so I am sure you can imagine what the surge was like for those diving.

As you can see in this photo the railing is completely underwater.

 

[tregrrr]

Peter:
+2 reasons I prefer boat diving

 

[GI0Ria]

any one else see this turning into a decline of training standards thread??

Not that ANYONE will argue that minimalist training offered today is equivalent or superior to that which was offered in [-]eons[/-] decades past.... But the story as recounted by the OP smacks of poor crowd management skills by a shop churnming out too many OW students for the conditions and with the number of instructors available.

In dog breeding this is commonly called a puppy mill.

I know here, with the shop I was originally certified by, the practice was to team teach using a pair of fully experienced instructors and only 6 students IF I RECALL CORRECTLY. In the shop I worked with we only ever had 2-3 students max per class, so it really wasn't an issue keeping tabs of divers and keeping the group together.

Yes we do have new gear on for the first time in the OW, but, in any courses I have had anything to do with, this is explained and discussed during EVERY pool session. No the OW exposure suits do not take a chlorine bath, but the divers are ENGAGED in discussion about the differences to be expected. Also, Dive 1 of the PADI system is supposed to be a fun dive-- getting used to the feel of the kit on the surface and then going for a "follow me" exploration of the new world inbetween two qualified people. If the anxiety of average students is kept minimized through effective surface planning and an unhurried calm demeanor, that first dive can be very effective as a teaching tool.

Any time you stress a student without a BLOODY good reason (South African Zambezi spotted) IMHO you are just cutting your own wrists as an instructor. Rushing or pushing a student, I find tends to SLOW the whole program down in the end. Any extra time a student needs to get composure or bearings or whatever sorted at the surface has always, in my limited experience, paid off. The times there was a parent or significant other confounding matters by making a less than ideal candidate 'hurry up" have pretty much invariably resulted in failed dives with an end result of splitting the two and the next dive working out much better. That in my mind is adequate argument for trying adamantly to keep initial stress (such as the OP's surface troubles) as minimized as possible....

So, again I suggest that you look into finding another shop once the dust settles. A key question you need to be asking of any future potential shop is what are their maximum class sizes and instructor/student RATIOS?" There are limits imposed by the certifying agencies, but in temperate water, such as what you describe, I doubt that classes of the Maximum allowable size would benefit you.

I'm not sure how many students can be in each class going out. Maybe it depends on the instructor/students ratio as you stated .... but there were 2 children there getting certified both under 13 I believe, and someone over 55, who appeared to be needing help by getting towed in and out at times. I was uncomfortable with the needs/instructors ratio I suppose as well-everyone seemed to need extra attention we got forgot about most likely? or it seems. But after I fell, I was done. I want to also state I had NO weight in my BC integrated pouches, instead of a lighter tank? I'm not sure-So when I fell I fell backwards and couldn't move, I had extra weights on my back besides the tank. He was going to put my weights in while I was in the water. After I let him know this was unacceptable that day I got my equipment. Because of ONE time someone did that for me, added weights while in the water at the pool and didn't snap them back in, and they fell out, I flew to the top. I let them know I did NOT want that to happen in the ocean. However they forgot I guess. Yeah it gets worse.

 

[GI0Ria]

I was out there both days. We had all the tables set up at the top of the stairs. You are right Saturday was a nice day. Sunday our dive team that has hundreds of dives between us called our dive before ever suiting up. Personally I feel they should not have had beginners out in those conditions. I watched many people get knocked down, and the chances of us getting knocked down were going to be pretty high. No one is to blame for falling down in those conditions. I have eaten it at Breakwater and lost my mask to the surf. What is the fun of diving in those conditions?

Hopefully you will be certified soon enough, and be able to enjoy diving with your son.

FWIW there is a small deli at the other side of the parking lot near the launch ramp.

The first and second photos were taken less than a minute apart, so I am sure you can imagine what the surge was like for those diving.

As you can see in this photo the railing is completely underwater.

Thank you, both me and my soon to be 18yr old son once we got to the bottom and were floating/kicking around we loved it as you could probably imagine, it is beautiful down there. Sat. it was great- calm, very nice. Sunday did you happen to see the Whale? At least there were nice sites, silver lining.
We will finish our certification, someone suggested getting a referral, I might work in that direction and try to finish it with another dive shop.

 

[Troutmaster]

I will give the OP credit, when she was uncomfortable with what was going on, she scrubed the dive, a tough choice when you want that C-card! Good for her.

Getting a referal to another dive op is a good option if your current instructor can't come up with a workable solution.