Finally the Roatan Marine Park gets a clue

[CODMAN]

Actually henry, at the speed we have seen Lionfish spread in the last few years (it has been documented) it is unlikely the introduction occured "long long ago". I think we would have seen this invasion long before...

Faulty logic really. Scientists have only been mapping marine fish for the last 100 years, and only recently finished their very first census of marine life. An average of 3 new fish species are discovered EVERY WEEK (many marine biologists expect us to document over 5000 new species of fish in the coming years). Our level of ignorance on marine fish is so profound it cannot be described in words. To say it "would have arrived long, long ago," well, maybe they did. What we do know is there are documented reports of that happening, so to say "not possible" is blinding yourself from factual information. Clearly, at the very least, it is information the scientists involved with NOAA took into consideration when they published their report with the generally finding of "we don't know."

 

[Sloeber]

Fred,

Will your findings be in the form of written text and printed somewhere for either download or purchase so someone not attending the conference will still have the opportunity to get the information? Or possibly a You Tube video of the actual presentation?

 

[Sloeber]

Actually henry, at the speed we have seen Lionfish spread in the last few years (it has been documented) it is unlikely the introduction occured "long long ago". I think we would have seen this invasion long before...

No doubt. I guess I worded it poorly, but I was suggesting that an invasion like this could have possibly happened before, with a fish other than the Lionfish, in other locations than the Caribbean, and we wouldn't know because our research has been so limited. I hope that makes it less muddy.

 

[CODMAN]

Well yeah, that is definetly the case. Invasive species appear regularly in the Great-lakes St-lawrence bassin via ship ballast. Because there is so little research effort into this, we often don't find out about the invasion until several years after, often once it's becomes obvious due to economic impacts (like zebra mussels clogging water intakes of factories, etc...). Then we take notice...

The lionfish was noticed quickly because 1- It's easily identifiable 2- The diving community is very "ecosystem wise" and was there to observe it.

If it wasn't for these 2 factors, we probably still wouldn't know it's here...

No doubt. I guess I worded it poorly, but I was suggesting that an invasion like this could have possibly happened before, with a fish other than the Lionfish, in other locations than the Caribbean, and we wouldn't know because our research has been so limited. I hope that makes it less muddy.

 

[Sloeber]

I was directly refering to saltwater fish. Yes, freshwater fish have a long history of introduction of foreign species. Locally asian carp are destroying the river system. However, I'm ignorant if it has ever been documented in saltwater prior to the lionfish.

Interestingly, freshwater fish keeping has been easy to achieve for a very long time. In contrast, keeping saltwater fish alive for any length of time is only a recent development in the past 20-30 or so years (but exploding in popularity in the last 10). I won't be shocked if in the coming years more decorative Pacific fish become established in the Caribbean.

 

[tarponchik]

Since islands like Bonaire and Curacao have virtually no diving activity along their east costs, these areas soon will be (if are not already) saturated with lionfish. It will be a great opportunity to check lionfish effects on coral health and small fish population there (and see if Fred R was right).

 

[CODMAN]

Yes, there are several cases of marine fish and invertebrates as well...

I was directly refering to saltwater fish. Yes, freshwater fish have a long history of introduction of foreign species. Locally asian carp are destroying the river system. However, I'm ignorant if it has ever been documented in saltwater prior to the lionfish.

Interestingly, freshwater fish keeping has been easy to achieve for a very long time. In contrast, keeping saltwater fish alive for any length of time is only a recent development in the past 20-30 or so years (but exploding in popularity in the last 10). I won't be shocked if in the coming years more decorative Pacific fish become established in the Caribbean.

 

[stevep4444]

Since islands like Bonaire and Curacao have virtually no diving activity along their east costs, these areas soon will be (if are not already) saturated with lionfish. It will be a great opportunity to check lionfish effects on coral health and small fish population there (and see if Fred R was right).

I find it interesting that we hear people report that they don't see many Lion Fish while diving at places like Cozumel. Due to all the traffic( 10 boats at the same location) at all the same dive spots and at mostly the same depths ( 80 ft max for many )it is obvious why there appear to be less Lion Fish. They are there, just not many on the well worn paths.

 

[tarponchik]

I find it interesting that we hear people report that they don't see many Lion Fish while diving at places like Cozumel. Due to all the traffic( 10 boats at the same location) at all the same dive spots and at mostly the same depths ( 80 ft max for many )it is obvious why there appear to be less Lion Fish. They are there, just not many on the well worn paths.

Is it possible that they do not like places with currents? With all their fins, they don't look like good swimmers and could be dragged away.

 

[Doc]

Is it possible that they do not like places with currents? With all their fins, they don't look like good swimmers and could be dragged away.

I have seen them- not so much within fierce currents, but instead in and about shipwrecks and reef structure, among fields of Chrinoids... sometimes with raging currents screaming by within a few feet.