First BCD, want integrated weights, mostly for travel

[bvbellomo]

It is dangerous, more so if you don't realize it.

To your example of 10lb off, I think 10lb is quite a lot off.

If you are 10lb light, at the end of the dive, the best case if you don't be able to hold your safety stop. Worst case you will have a uncontrollable ascent, which can be deadly.

If you are 10lb over, at the beginning of the dive, you are actually 16-18lb over depend on the tank you are using. That means you will need 16-18 lb worth of air in your BC just to be neutral. It make it so much harder to control buoyancy. Also you will need a bigger lift, more clumbay BC that you won't need otherwise.

This is my point exactly - 10lbs is enormous, but still seems a long way away from dangerous. The tank gets lighter. So 10lbs heavy at the start puts you close to where you should start at the end. And while 10lbs light at the start puts you 20lbs light at the end, it is far from uncontrolled ascent, and well within safely completing the dive as planned while wondering "what the hell was I thinking?" territory. And the posted articles specifically called out overweighted divers being accident prone, so tank usage would only make the situation better.

 

[ReadyDiverOne]

Dude, if you are 20 lbs light from proper weighting at the end of the dive it is going to be virtually impossible to stay down! And you wouldn't be able to descend in the first place because you would be dramatically underweighted. So I'm really confused by your statement.

 

[eelnoraa]

.And.. while 10lbs light at the start puts you 20lbs light at the end, it is far from uncontrolled ascent, and well within safely completing the dive ....

You have no idea what you are talking about. 20lb light is a rapid uncontrollable ascent and you need to be extremely lucky to not die.

 

[ReadyDiverOne]

+1

 

[bvbellomo]

I am really perplexed by the buoyancy issues raised by the OP. First, I'm 6' and 195 lbs; I use the Covert (not the XT), and I've never had to use more than 12 lbs in warm water, and I'm usually using 10, or even 8lbs. If you need more than the 16 lbs the Covert carries (yes, it does, easily, I think I got 20 in there for a dive in La Jolla Cove where I was wearing a 7mil and a shorty), then I would suggest a weight belt, not non-ditchable weights. Second, in terms of trim, I have not had any issues with that with the Covert. Maybe it's just me, but that's what I love about the Covert: as a back inflate, it more or less automatically orients one horizontally. Third, as @eelnoraa explains, if you don't have your buoyancy dialed in to well within 10 lbs (down to a pound or three I would say), you are really asking for trouble in terms of either being way over-weighted at the beginning of the dive or super light at the end. So a "give or take 10lbs" approach seems nuts to me. Finally, I agree with whomever said the OP was overthinking this: you just can't go wrong with either of the Coverts.

This is what I was looking for. Do you use a wetsuit?

I want to clarify, I understand the "give or take 10lbs" may seem nuts to more experienced divers. But my point is that is about the range I have trouble telling if I am over or underweighted (The smallest weight we had was 5lbs and 5lbs under or over was better than 5lbs in the front or back), and seems to me to be a very long ways away from being dangerously under/overweighted. Dangerous does not mean expending extra effort and moving ungracefully. Dangerous means ascending faster than I want to or descending when I don't want to. At least within the my limited experience and controlled environments, this involves far more weight than I'd ever intentionally carry.

 

[bvbellomo]

You have no idea what you are talking about. 20lb light is a rapid uncontrollable ascent and you need to be extremely lucky to not die.

I am not 20lbs underweight without weights, so this is outside my experience. So it is fair to say I don't know what I am talking about. But I'd still think I'd be able to stay level expending extra effort - and if not, I don't think I could get to enough depth to be dangerous, I'd just be stuck on the surface. The article specifically mentioned overweighted (not underweighted) divers being dangerous.

 

[ReadyDiverOne]

My friend, I am genuinely reluctant to engage with you further on this because your posts reflect such an apparent lack of understanding of basic scuba diving concepts. First, as I hope you know, there is a very simple test one can and should do upon entering the water to determine if one is weighted properly, it's actually called a buoyancy test! How To Perform the Ultimate Buoyancy Check

Second, I don't know who you are diving with, but find another operator. The idea that you were limited to only 5 lb weights is absurd, and dangerous. There's no way you would ever be able to dial in your buoyancy using such a gross measure, you need 1-4 lb weights.

Third, in re-reading your post, I have no idea what this means: "Dangerous means ascending faster than I want to or descending when I don't want to. At least within the my limited experience and controlled environments, this involve far more weight than I'd ever intentionally carry." This is what buoyancy is all about, controlling descent and ascent through weight, trim, and breathing.

Finally, I do sometimes wear a 3mm wetsuit in warm water; when I do, I'm usually using 10-12 lbs.

 

[eelnoraa]

This is what I was looking for. Do you use a wetsuit?

I want to clarify, I understand the "give or take 10lbs" may seem nuts to more experienced divers. But my point is that is about the range I have trouble telling if I am over or underweighted (The smallest weight we had was 5lbs and 5lbs under or over was better than 5lbs in the front or back), and seems to me to be a very long ways away from being dangerously under/overweighted. Dangerous does not mean expending extra effort and moving ungracefully. Dangerous means ascending faster than I want to or descending when I don't want to. At least within the my limited experience and controlled environments, this involve far more weight than I'd ever intentionally carry.

You are most likely on the over side. If you are light, you will know. Even just 2-3 lb light, it is a very unpleasant feeling at the end of the dive.

How about trade a few pieces of 5lb for 2lb+3lb? Your local divers or even dive shop s are usually willing to do it. Then do proper weight check.

The danger of over weight, when things go perfectly, will appear as a minor inconvenience. But when the right failure occur, couple with over weight, it can quickly turn into a deadly event. And often, this affects your diving buddies as well. So it isn't just about you unless you dive solo.

 

[MichaelMc]

Just to clarify, when we say x pounds over/under weight we usually mean from neutral at the safety stop with near empty tank. So even if you were perfectly weighted for the SS, you will start the dive overweighted due to the gas in your tank, likely 5 lb. for an AL80.

So being overweighted at the SS just makes worse that early dive gas over weighting.

+1 on your dive op using 5 lb weights as the smallest they have. THAT IS INSANE!! Find a better dive op!! If that is all you have seen, no one has been teaching you to dive. Not your fault, but theirs.

 

[bvbellomo]

It was years ago, but remember 2 tasks being harder of the many we did - swimming through hula hoops (harder than it looks with full scuba gear, as you almost touch on all sides at the same time) and holding horizontal without ascending or descending. We were encouraged to try with different weight configurations. I was able to do both without much difficulty without ANY weight, although the instructor did not seem too happy about it and wanted me using at least 10 lbs. 20lbs is about where I noticed the weight hurting more than helping, although I was able do both with much more (but I don't remember how much).

But my point is, it takes a surprisingly large amount of weight between a beginner knowing they are underweighted and where they know they are overweighted, and then considerably more weight before a beginner is overweighted to the point of being unable to do pool exercises. I would think being overweighted enough to cause real danger would involve much more weight than being unable to do pool exercises. This doesn't take at all away from an expert who notices a huge difference between adding 1 lbs or less - they are just that much more in tune with what is going on.

I am with a different group in a different city now, and will probably take a class before my vacation, but want to get my own equipment first.