First open water dive: ran out of air. WTH?

[bowlofpetunias]

Fair enough sometimes it is hard to tell with print only to look at.

If you have an event happen with 3 witnesses there can be 3 different HONEST and TRUE descriptions. Each person's description passes through the filters of their experience to get their interpretation. Each person is telling their truth but the REAL truth may be different from all three witness statements

All we can do is respond to the OP's TRUTH at this time. I have seen some people post of events where they clearly had an ax to grind and were perhaps even embroidering the story a bit. My point was that there is no indication of that here.

 

[phoenix31tt]

All I'm suggesting is that responders to threads like this consider the fact that they are usually THREE sides to every story.

Fixed that for you...
1 persons side... The other persons side and the truth lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[OkByMe]

How times have changed.

There was a time when you just did not know how much gas you had left; until it was time to surface. I had a VW that was the same way. You learned to manage and safely do what you had to do. Or you didn't dive or drive.

Exactly... I spent 8 years diving "J" valves before I bought the first available gauge that was reliable. But you MUST make sure the rod is up, before and during the dive. When you start sucking wind and the rod is already pulled... slow free accent is the only option. I don't even dive with a gauge anymore since I have transmitter-ed up.

 

[Frosty]

hey folks Ive reread the first post over and over again. Something that has leapt out of the screen at me was the ASSUMPTION the instructor wasn't concerned about the situation of the OP running OOA.
Isn't it a big part of our job not to SEEM worried after the fact?
I bet the instructor WAS actually was pretty darn worried.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I bet the instructor WAS actually was pretty darn worried.

From my own personal story, I wouldn't bet on that. However, I do believe that 99% of the instructors would be. There are just a lot of instructors out there, so that 1% is still a big number.

 

[scagrotto]

As you say given the standards violations he has been shown to have made, what else is missing/incorrect/dangerous?

How did we get most of the way through page 6 before anybody brought that up? And how is it that nobody commented on this:

He said... that running completely out was very rare - or words to that effect.

"Very rare"? As in you're the only one it ever happened to on his watch, or it only happens to 1% or 0.1% of his students? I've got no quarrel with him saying he didn't realize you couldn't read the gauge, and I won't hold a miscommunication against him even if it was because he just spaced out while you were telling him. It's the number of other red flags that make me worry. I'll have to assume that all those cross examinations are because you're a criminal defense lawyer whose clients are all innocent, based on your apparent willingness to accept this guy's story.

 

[Neilwood]

hey folks Ive reread the first post over and over again. Something that has leapt out of the screen at me was the ASSUMPTION the instructor wasn't concerned about the situation of the OP running OOA.
Isn't it a big part of our job not to SEEM worried after the fact?
I bet the instructor WAS actually was pretty darn worried.

I really don't think he was after re-reading through it. He seems to be the sort of instructor who follows his own standards:
1) Lack of gas monitoring - breach of standards.
2) Enclosed swim through - breach of standards.

When informed by the student he couldn't read the gauge, his response was to ignore it and still not bother checking gas usage. If nothing else, he should have checked the gauge was readable by the student in the water (which he doesn't appear to have done) and still regularly checked the gas pressure (either by checking himself or by signalling the OP to indicate it).

If the instructor was worried at all I would suspect it would be for the potential report going to his superiors/association.

Quoted the OP for clarity:

When I first arrived, the tank my instructor had set out for me was empty to his surprise. He got me another one and I hooked up. He told me the gauge was hard to read because the cover had clouded up. I told him I couldn't see it at all due to wearing my contacts, plus the cloudy plastic cover. He read it, said I was fine.

He, I and a second student practiced various things in the enclosure for 45-60 mins or so, including mask clearing, losing and retrieving the mouthpiece, emergency ascent, and buddy breathing. We then swam into the quarry along a wall. I loved it. Until we turned and were swimming back when I ran out of air. We were at about 30 feet or so. It was startling. Especially, when I did not realize how to get their attention as they were both ahead of me - though only several feet. I did not panic but it scared me. I was able to catch up to the other student, tap his tank and give him the out of air signal. He handled it like a pro and we buddy breathed to the top.

My instructor was extremely non-chalant about the whole thing. I thanked my buddy and joked a little with them about needing to pay extra for air next time. But it bothered me, scared me. We had swam by a long cement culvert type cylinder/tube which we would have swum through had it not been blocked. Sitting here tonight, I wonder what would have happened had I run out inside that longish, dark tube?

I realize I am responsible for my own safety and will never dive again not being able to read my own gauge like that. I am not even sure how much air I started with.

I am a rank novice, though I have been comfortable up to this point. I've had two pool dives, plus the open water dive today and that's it. How bothered should this episode make me? Because I am somewhat bothered.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I believe that when doing the pre-dive buddy check, each diver is to check that for 'A'
1. Is the valve fully open?
2. Does the air smell non-rubbery or taste funny?
3. Is there enough air for the dive? (this portion was missed probably, as the OP didn't know how much he started with and the instructor gave the specific value of "enough").

---------- Post added October 21st, 2015 at 08:05 PM ----------

Did I miss anything?

 

[halocline]

I really don't think he was after re-reading through it. He seems to be the sort of instructor who follows his own standards:
1) Lack of gas monitoring - breach of standards.
2) Enclosed swim through - breach of standards.

You don't really know if he breached either of these standards. What you do know is that a student said that they "would have" gone through a swim through. They didn't actually do any enclosed swim through. IMO, the swim through bit is a non-issue in this thread.

The gas monitoring issue is problematic, and it's hard to believe that a certified instructor (unlike regulator technicians, scuba instructors really do have get trained and pass tests) would completely ignore any sort of gas monitoring. Of course, IMO, it's likewise hard to imagine that a student who is in a scuba class, presumably aware of the fact that air from the tank does in fact run out, would do the same. My experience is that students are typically pretty concerned about running out of air. It's also hard to believe that someone in an OW class, meaning very little experience diving, would completely run out of air and THEN calmly swim towards another student who was several feet away, tap his tank, wait for the octo to be offered, and THEN calmly ascend the dive, and THEN say how scared he was after the fact. It just doesn't add up to me, but who knows. My experience with OW students is that if they suddenly can't breathe air for any reason, they're heading right for the surface, FAST. Or, if there's another diver in the immediate vicinity, like within arms reach, they're going straight for the regulator in that diver's mouth. This student didn't seem to act in a way that indicated any concern, both before and during the OOA event.

But, maybe it really did happen just like the OP says. My point is, it's a little quick to definitively blame the instructor on threads like this.

 

[boulderjohn]

But, maybe it really did happen just like the OP says. My point is, it's a little quick to definitively blame the instructor on threads like this.

Not at all.

The OP's profile said he was trained by a PADI instructor. PADI standards state that on the first dive the student is supposed to respond to requests for remaining air supply. On all subsequent dives, the student is supposed to be able to respond to an inquiry about remaining gas supply with reasonable accuracy without looking at the gauge because he or she has been checking it regularly.

The current standards are designed to teach the student to check gas levels frequently. They are required to respond to inquiries without looking at their gauges several times in the pool sessions, again because they are supposedly looking at them regularly. They are required to respond to inquiries of remaining gas levels on all four open water dives.