Frustrations with the local LDS's

[Dogbowl]

@zhaddock, unfortunately, I think your experience is not unusual for the diving industry. I have several shops in my area and each has its own pros and cons. I like to take courses with one shop (their courses are not a loss leader as far as I can tell) and buy most of my equipment from another shop on the other side of the city (a painful drive but I do it). I just think shop #1 excels at teaching with great facilities, and shop #2 excels at selling stuff to me. Neither does the petty thing of making me feel bad if I shop elsewhere. If timing and price is right, I will even go on trips with these shops, even if it is slightly more expensive than doing it myself. Why not? I like the camaraderie.

There is a third shop that is close by and while I tried to give them business and do do so on occasion, I've pretty much given up for several reasons.

I guess my point is, sometimes you just have to drive farther for shops that you like.

Sometimes you want to go
Where everybody knows your name
And they're always glad you came...

 

[Bierstadt]

There's more shops in town they're just further away. I'm going to have to shop around a bit. I'm for sure done with shop #1. It just pisses me off more than anything about shop #2. They have the opportunity to gain some/a lot business from me but they would rather have an oath of allegiance signed in blood and cash.

Some places are like that. Oh well. God (sadly) did not grant everyone good sense. I suggest you continue to use yours and accept that these shop owners are the way they are and move on from it. Fortunately you have found a place with decent training. If you want you can find another LDS that will respect your budget and recommend gear for you, or you can take that role for yourself. The caveat is that you will spend A LOT of time on researching your own gear if that is something you like to do. (If you get your recommendations from Scubaboard you will probably end up with a BP/W, Deep6 regs, a Perdix DC, and steel tanks, because Scubaboard. That may not be where you want to start with gear buying. )

I would further point out that new divers generally wish to learn about the accepted ethics of diving and dive shops. I certainly did. The general rule of thumb, as such, is if you are using the dive shop to try on stuff and get hands on with the gear you try and buy from the shop. Some stuff is absolutely worth paying a premium for this service, such as masks and boots. Regs, not so much in my opinion. But don't feel you have to buy local just because it is there. Used stuff can be great bargains.

 

[Diver0001]

A little back story. I began looking for dive shops back in mid-summer for my son and I to get our OW certs through for his 10th birthday. I ended up going ahead and getting my cert ahead of his at the recommendation of several people which now that I have been through the training and better understand the risk in diving I can say it was absolutely the best way to go about this. I plan to follow up with AOW and Rescue before the end of next summer. At the beginning though I started off speaking with a shop close to our home that was very welcoming and stated that we should do a try scuba class with them first to see if he would like it since he’s young. The way they went about the try scuba session looking back after having been trained was really kind of scary but at the time I had never had a regulator in my mouth so I didn’t know any better. They basically strapped all the gear on us and said “Have fun if you go to the deep end it might hurt your ears so beware of that”. We both had fun and it confirmed that he wanted to continue to pursue diving. So after the try scuba class I wanted to discuss options for us doing the open water class together. They were more adamant though about me signing him up for their youth program but they were being elusive as to what exactly was detailed other than he would get training and then be part of their “youth dive club” that has monthly meetings and activities. After he heard their pitch about all the fun games they’d play every month he was sold so I signed him up. Now, they had told me that his “youth program” cert class would be over the span of two days. They gave him one day of training and then tried to send him home with a dvd and call that the second day of training. I had words with the shop and explained that I was told he would receive two days in the pool for training. Their response was “He doesn’t need a second day in the pool. He basically knows it all”. After some strong words they conceded to give him the training I paid for. The cost of these two days “training” was $250.00 and all it qualified him to do was participate in their club which cost another $260 in dues every six months. (Again at the time I didn’t know any better).

I decided to start looking into other shops for us to cert through as I didn’t feel all warm and cozy about the one we had been going to. I ended up at another shop further away from our home but I immediately felt like I was in the right place. I could tell from my first conversations with them that they we’re very serious about their training programs. They we’re the ones that discouraged me from letting him take the class before I had any training myself. I went ahead and signed up and completed my OW with them last month. I will start working on my AOW and Rescue next spring. My son will start his class room work in December, and his OW check next summer.

The only issue I have with the new shop is the way the treat you if you don’t buy every piece of gear from them. I have been slowly collecting gear for both my son and myself and I discussed my plans for future gear purchases with them. The problem is that they only want to sell me the most expensive gear and get testy when I mention lower cost options. They also don’t seem to be very keen on slowly piecing things together. They try to push for a one time purchase of the whole kit. I’ve explained to them that I’m not in that position financially. This usually ends any help I can get from them. The impression I get from them is “It’s either buy the Lamborghini or shop elsewhere.”

So I feel like I have nowhere to go. I have one shop that seems like they just want to collect my money and then half ass the training. And I have one shop that training wise is wonderful and the people and instructors are great during the class but if I don’t plan to spend more than a $1000.00 at a time they don’t have interest in the business I’m trying to give them. I have since bought some new gear and some used here and there whenever a really good deal has come around but I don’t feel like I have anywhere I can go to get service for it.

I don’t get how places of business can operate this way. If I ran my business like either of these I’d be out of customers real fast.

It sounds like the second shop takes training seriously, so it's a no-brainer that this is where you need to go for training. The first shop sounds like they are cutting corners and I think your intuition about this is reliable.

As for the "snarkiness" about not buying what they want to sell you. My approach has always been to make it clear that I'm happy to be a customer but that I am not willing to tolerate coercion. Unfortunately it happens more often than you might think.

In your position I would make it clear that I'm happy to spend money there but that your purchasing decisions are yours, not theirs. It's your money and you make the decisions.

If they are not willing to accept that then you have a conflict. I would still be inclined to take courses there but if they won't back off then you might be better off buying your gear from a shop with a more customer focused attitude. You don't need to do everything at one store.

 

[Scuba-74]

I totally understand that they need to sell equipment to pay their bills but at the same time if I were running the business and someone came in with gear I didn't sell them I would see that as an opportunity to win their business through great service not make them feel like a second class citizen. The dealership that services my truck I know would have loved to sell it to me but they sure as hell wont complain about me paying them to service it instead of paying the other guys.

All LDSs run multiple lines of business - gear sales, gear rentals, gear service, certifications, local travel, global travel, air/nitrox fills being the main ones. The odd thing about the LDS business model is that in some lines of business, such as gear sales, they can't possibly compete with the internet. In other lines of business - such as fills, service, and certifications they can be a pivotal supplier, in other words - it's their way or the highway. As a result - you can't simply apply logic that works in nearly unlimited supply (like truck sales in Kansas) to this scenario. LDSs are unique entities operating in a unique market place, and while I certainly don't buy into the narrative of "you should buy from your LDS just to keep them afloat", I wouldn't be surprised if a store tried to exercise certain market power while dealing with a customer.

In your specific situation, I don't necessarily see that LDS #2 is abusing its market power. You say that "if I don’t plan to spend more than a $1000.00 at a time they don’t have interest in the business I’m trying to give them" - but what does it really mean? Do they refuse to train and certify you if you don't buy all the gear from them? Do you suspect that you will have less attention from the instructor if your gear is purchased elsewhere? If so, then you have a legitimate reason to be concerned. If not, I'd say get certified there and don't hesitate to buy your gear where it makes the most sense to you and you alone.