Fussy question about Apeks first stages differences and second stages coupling

[Mark1982]

Hi to all,
I've a fussy and annoying question about Apeks regulators...

I've often read (across Scubaboard posts and in several other websites) that there are not remarkable differences among Apeks first stages, except for the hoses routing and the number of ports.

For example, DS4 - DST - FSR are all dry-chamber first stages.
The DS4 has only one HP port, intesad of the 2 HP ports of FSR and DST.
The DST has a swivel turret, the DS4 and FSR have not a turret.
The FSR has a HP valve with a removable HP valve seat (AP5721), the DS4 and DST have only the HP valve.

I've also read that this first stages offer the same breathing perfomance...


It's also same about second stages: for example, XTX50 and XTX200 are basically the same in inner technical design and breathing performances (they only differ in aesthetic finishes).


Is it really right?

I'm in doubt because two Apeks repairing and selling stores have told me that is not exactly I've read so far from anonymus users in the web...

For example, they told me that they prefer not putting a DST together with an XTX200 (even if a lot of sellers does it) because a DST+XTX50 would be slightly less performant that a FSR+XTX200 (it's a fussiness and nobody would feel the difference, but a difference is really present) ...
In addition a FSR+XTX50 combination is not officially certificated (it would be problematic in insurance issues).

( Notice that I've got two sets of FSR+XTX200 regulators and also a DST+XTX50, so the Apeks sellers have no interests in suggesting me a particular congifuration in order to sell it to me )

What do You think about?

 

[Jim Lapenta]

They might not have an interest in selling to you now. The insurance thing is bull crap. As long as the IP is correct on the 1st and the second is tuned to that you can stick a properly tuned Sherwood brut second on it and the average diver would not be able to tell the difference and the insurance company wouldn't give a rat's behind. It's marketing pure and simple. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to buy components separately or swap hoses when you wanted. If it were that critical they'd be fixed unit that only the factory or a dealer would have the tools to change.

Wow, the lies that shops will tell is amazing.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Mark1982]

Hi Jim thanks for Your fast reply...
I've supposed that it was exactly as You've written... but I was also hoping that 2 trusted sellers don't tell lies so easily as I could imagine...


I want to use a FSR + XTX200 on a bottom stage, but I prefer a DST instead of a FSR on a stage (better hose routing with a swivel turret)... so I'm going to sell the used FSR and then I will buy a new DST.

When I've told this to the sellers, they both have suggested me keeping my FSR , avoiding to buy a DST (and notice that I would have bought it from one of their shop).
Not-selling a regulator is not in a seller's interest... and this is the main reason because I've kept in consideration their opinion about regulators. It's a strange behaviour...

Maybe I don't change my mind and I'll do as I've thought last month: selling the FSR and buying a new DST...

 

[abyss_scuba]

Actually I do not agree with Mr Lapenta's point of view. From what I understand - and this could be wrong - in Europe retailers who mix and match parts which are not normally sold that way are taking on an additional liability. I am not talking about putting octo x on first stage y. I am talking about your very situation were a retailer sells you two components that are not part of the same set. But then again you are in Italy and the chap I got this from was English. Look into what the current EU standings are before you listen to someone who is American and does not know what the regulations are in Europe. Think about it all the retailer is concerned about is that you buy from them. They can probably mark up separates more than a complete set, so what Mr Lapenta is saying does not make sense from a busimness point of view.

 

[buddhasummer]

Have to disagree abyss_scuba.

You can readily, openly and legally purchase/mix and match separate Apeks 1st and 2nd stages as you see fit in England and other European countries. Yes you will pay slightly more buying separates as opposed to "sets". I think the hose routing on the FSR for single tank diving is very good. The turret sounds like a good idea in theory but the reality is once hooked up and pressurised it moves very little.

As Jim has posted as long a the ip is set correctly to match the second stage, any second stage, you will have no problems. If using the same brand 1st and 2nd stages i.e Apeks you will have no problems and I say this from personal exprience of purchasing Apeks from authorized dealers in England and Spain, owning, mixing and matching Apeks 1st and 2nd stages. Good luck.

 

[mala]

i have a selection of apex first and second stages that i mix and match as i see fit.

the only problem is that some of the first stages have a 1/2 inch feed for the primary reg so you need to carry an extra spare hose.

 

[abyss_scuba]

As I understand it the issue is EN certification. Manufacturers test regulators as a unit a dive shop that chooses to sell parts separately are selling untested units- yes I know each part was tested but not together is I believe the issue. BTW I am not saying you can not use different parts together I am talking about a shop selling you 2 different parts. But if you are across the pond then I will defer to your knowledge.

 

[Tortuga68]

You can buy Apeks regs as sets or individually and mix & match as you please. The second stages can be upgraded/converted from 20 to 40 to 50 just by swapping a few parts. Between 50/100/200 the only difference for second stage is cosmetic

If you need any proof look at the Tek3 set; Apeks' top of line doubles kit comes with XTX50 second stages

The annoying & pointless 1/2" fittings are only on ATX series first stages; you can use an adapter to keep the hoses the same if you wish

 

[inka]

As I understand it the issue is EN certification. Manufacturers test regulators as a unit a dive shop that chooses to sell parts separately are selling untested units- yes I know each part was tested but not together is I believe the issue. BTW I am not saying you can not use different parts together I am talking about a shop selling you 2 different parts. But if you are across the pond then I will defer to your knowledge.

If read, some time ago, that EN250 was the certification for 1st stage + hose + 2nd stage all together, not separated.
I bought from a shop in France, and AQL 2nd stage, and was asked to give the serial number of my AQL 1 stage, to be able to buy the 2nd stage.On the other hand, i bought an Apeks DS4 and 1 month later, an Apeks XTX40, without problem from a shop in England.