Gas Pressure Indication Redundancy

[fnfalman]

Who in this thread stated you have to conform to their preference or stay out of the water?

Tobin

When did I make the claim in this thread that people would make me conform to their preference or stay out of the water? Ain't nobody gonna make me conform to squat much less make me stay out of the water.

The OP stated that for those who use AI computer and wireless AI computer should have a backup SPG because somehow on one of his dives, somebody caused him to lose a dive because of their computer malfunctions. Next thing you know, a bunch of experts started to claim; as usual, about how worthless or unnecessary AI computers are and how unsafe wireless AI computers are in various environments.

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I am shocked that a diver with such a cavalier attitude about gas management and OOA emergencies would be made a moderator on a SCUBA diving website.

What does being a moderator has to do with his own diving philosophy?

Last I checked, moderators aren't "expert" in diving or speak for any agency in any official capacity. They're here to keep the postings vonformed to Scubaboard rules, no more no less.

 

[cool_hardware52]

When did I make the claim in this thread that people would make me conform to their preference or stay out of the water? Ain't nobody gonna make me conform to squat much less make me stay out of the water.

When did you claim that others want to make you conform? When you used the the term "gotta" as in "must" or mandatory.

I personally don't care how people rig their gears. It's their money and it's their lives. I do take affront to people telling me that I gotta rig my gear to their preference. Sorry, but I rig my gears for my diving preference and not for anybody else's. If they don't like it, they don't have to be my buddy or dive in my group.

The OP stated that for those who use AI computer and wireless AI computer should have a backup SPG because somehow on one of his dives, somebody caused him to lose a dive because of their computer malfunctions.

Hard to believe anyone could be as over the top aggressive, in a public forum no less, as the OP in "Hoping" others might avoid the problems he experienced.

For all of those people who have a wireless transmitter, I hope you have an SPG installed too.

For all of those people who have air integrated computers hooked up to you HP port, I hope you have an SPG installed.

With your usual hypersensitivity you managed to morph the OP's suggestion based on his personal experience and his own opinion into an oppressive command from the scuba gods. Forums are supposed to be a place for the exchange of ideas. Nobody should expect to agree with all of them or even a majority of them.


If you really don't care how others dive why the constant bluster?

We get it, you will dive anyway you please. Good for you, enjoy. The whole caped defender of truth, justice, and the right too nonconformity routine is IMO, getting a bit worn.



Tobin

 

[doctormike]

Forums are supposed to be a place for the exchange of ideas. Nobody should expect to agree with all of them or even a majority of them.

+1


Mike

 

[flots am]

So your c-card would be punched in 4 days?

Generally not for training.

Unless you have gills, OOA is an emergency.

It shouldn't be. On a recreational dive, even if you're a double-dumbass and both lose your buddy and run out of air (two c-card punches, IMO), all the air you could possibly want is available on the surface. This is a safe option when diving within OW limits.

Relying on buddy breathing is great, unless your buddy has his head as far up his alimentary canal as anyone relying on "buddy skils" as a crutch for poor gas management.

??? So sharing air is bad ???

Pay attention to your gas reserves and you will greatly decrease your risk. You may not be able to reach your buddy when you suck your tank

That would mean that I was stupid twice on the same dive, however OW emergency procedures (surface and attain positive buoyancy) still work just fine, and it's still not an emergency.

, or he might not have adequate gas reserves necessary for you to make a safe ascent.

That would also require 3 "I'm stupid" punches, because I ran out of air and went diving with a dumbass and didn't keep an eye on his gas. It would also be my last dive with that buddy. However surfacing is still a reasonable and safe option.

Also, you put your buddy at unnecessary risk by having to buddy breathe with you.

If sharing air is an "unnecessary risk" then more training is required.

My buddy has all the gas necessary to get both of us safely back from any point in the dive, as do I .

**** happens. Plan for it. If you have a good, workable plan, it's not an emergency.

If my computer fails (the topic of this thread), nothing happens except that I might get annoyed.

flots.

 

[nimoh]

I look at my pressure a couple times during a dive. Some of you folks talk like you spend so much time monitoring gauges that you miss the dive!

If my SPG stops functioning I may not realize it for 20 minutes. I would not likely abort the dive, that's what a buddy or pony tank is for! Loosing the SPG does not mean anything has changed. So why am I changing my dive plan? Now if I lost the ability to monitor my time, but thats very unlikely and a different situation.

I often exit with 1500lbs so why am I worried that my pressure is low? I rarely come up with less than 750psi. I do carry a backup SPG but have never used that. If my AI SPG fails then I add my backup between dives, and continue on. This is also depth dependent. If at 120' than its very different than a 30' dive off Key Largo. I'm guessing the OP had a lazy DM who loved the idea of exiting early and spending the remainder of the evening relaxing! Group night dive? Seriously?

I think some people have too much time on their hands leading to threads like this!

If carrying a pony, then I don't see this as a big deal. I would likely end the dive if it came to relying on my buddy though (separations happen).

I too only check my pressure a few times per dive, and in the worst case could go 20 minutes before I found out about the failure. However, I would likely end the dive since I may not be aware of a leak out of my first stage. So, if my dive plan was a 60 minute dive, finishing with 500psi, an unknown leak might put my OOA.

However, I use a wireless, and also have an spg backup. I mostly use the wireless for convenience, having it on my wrist. My spg needs to be unclipped in order for me to see it clearly, so it is just easier to look at my computer, even though I don't like to rely on it.

 

[diverdoug1]

??? So sharing air is bad ???

Getting yourself in a situation that requires sharing air is bad

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That would also require 3 "I'm stupid" punches, because I ran out of air and went diving with a dumbass and didn't keep an eye on his gas. It would also be my last dive with that buddy
.

So it is OK for you to suck your tank empty but not OK for your buddy to do so? Hmmmm

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If sharing air is an "unnecessary risk" then more training is required.

Two divers relying on a single tank always introduces additional risks, Relying on buddy breathing to make up for not keeping a vigilant watch over your gas reserves would indicate the need for further training.

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**** happens. Plan for it. If you have a good, workable plan, it's not an emergency.

Just because you have a contingency plan to bail you out of an emergency, does not mean that there is not an emergency. "An emergency is a set of circumstances resulting in a state that calls for immediate action to avoid loss or harm" Webster
So, unless you can live without breathing air, being out of air would require immediate action to avoid harm, ergo...an emergency

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However surfacing is still a reasonable and safe option.
.

I assume you are talking about doing a controlled emergency swimming ascent. It may be an option but it certainly is not safe. As a hyperbaric physician I can assure you that regardless of if you may have stayed within your NDL's, you greatly increase your chances of a DCS hit with this type of ascent.

 

[flots am]

So it is OK for you to suck your tank empty but not OK for your buddy to do so? Hmmmm

A failed computer does not cause the gas in the tank to vanish.

Just because you have a contingency plan to bail you out of an emergency, does not mean that there is not an emergency. "

My emergency plan is to share air with my buddy, and surface.

I assume you are talking about doing a controlled emergency swimming ascent. It may be an option but it certainly is not safe.

It's certainly not a first "go-to" option, however if someone has managed to both run out of air and lose their buddy, it's not a big risk when compared to drowning.

I'm not sure how many divers you've treated who have been within the NDL and done a proper CESA, and ended up with DCS, however I'm guessing the number isn't huge because it's seldom reported.

"An emergency is a set of circumstances resulting in a state that calls for immediate action to avoid loss or harm"

That's a pretty wide brush. By your definition, nearly all of SCUBA diving is an emergency.

flots.

 

[diverdoug1]

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A failed computer does not cause the gas in the tank to vanish.

.

Noone said it did.

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My emergency plan is to share air with my buddy, and surface..

If you are employing an emergency plan, then it sounds like an emergency, huh?

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It's certainly not a first "go-to" option, however if someone has managed to both run out of air and lose their buddy, it's not a big risk when compared to drowning.

You said CESA was a reasonable and SAFE option...WRONG. Controlled EMERGENCY swimming ascent is an option of last resort

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That's a pretty wide brush. By your definition, nearly all of SCUBA diving is an emergency.

flots.

Not my definition, Websters

 

[nimoh]

That's a pretty wide brush. By your definition, nearly all of SCUBA diving is an emergency.

What are you doing on your dives such that nearly everything you do is a result of a state that calls for immediate action to avoid loss or harm?

I can't think of anything on a normal dive that fits this description of an emergency.

 

[diverdoug1]

I'm not sure how many divers you've treated who have been within the NDL and done a proper CESA, and ended up with DCS,.

Eleven