Gear config, Long primary

[Potapko]

I am looking for some help here. I am trying to understand the logic behind the long primary for "normal" open water diving. I tried it and found that head movement was not as easy as with the typical hose. I simply tucked the hose under my canister and accross my chest and around my neck. Movement both to the left and right was somewhat restricted. For those who will ask I was using a 7' hose. I am asking because after speaking to an admitted "non-DIR" instructor, I am partially convinced. I also understand that DIR means also only diving with DIR so this hypothetical situation would not arrise. In many cases however that is not possible. His argument, which I didn't read on the thread about disadvantages to DIR, is that in an ooa situation he wouldn't want a nervous or panicing diver on the end of a 7' hose but rather right up close where he could have a firm hold on his jacket. I can see where this is also not ideal but between the two it "seems" better than far off. I am a fairly new diver as I have posted and am certainly not "trolling". I want to learn. If you don't want to post you can pm me.

Thanks for reading and helping,
Jeff

 

[Mitchell]

I'm curious myself and hope more would chime in.

 

[Diver0001]

I am looking for some help here. I am trying to understand the logic behind the long primary for "normal" open water diving. I tried it and found that head movement was not as easy as with the typical hose. I simply tucked the hose under my canister and accross my chest and around my neck. Movement both to the left and right was somewhat restricted. For those who will ask I was using a 7' hose. I am asking because after speaking to an admitted "non-DIR" instructor, I am partially convinced. I also understand that DIR means also only diving with DIR so this hypothetical situation would not arrise. In many cases however that is not possible. His argument, which I didn't read on the thread about disadvantages to DIR, is that in an ooa situation he wouldn't want a nervous or panicing diver on the end of a 7' hose but rather right up close where he could have a firm hold on his jacket. I can see where this is also not ideal but between the two it "seems" better than far off. I am a fairly new diver as I have posted and am certainly not "trolling". I want to learn. If you don't want to post you can pm me.

Thanks for reading and helping,
Jeff

Having a long hose doesn't mean you *must* be 7ft away from your buddy in an emergency. It gives you enough options to do things like swim while sharing air without going through all kinds of contortions *without* denying you of options to do things like hold on to each other.....

Just try it. Go to the pool and try some air sharing drills with a shorthose and then with a longhose. Your own experience will be a better guide to what works than anything you read or hear from others.

R..

 

[JimC]

I am trying to understand the logic behind the long primary for "normal" open water diving.

I use the same config for all of my diving, so I have the same response to emergencies. Look, grab, duck, donate - emergency over. I don't have to think about which rig I am in and where I cliped something off. Its always the same and there is something to be said for muscle memory.

It also facilititates alternatives that you just don't realisticaly have with a short hose, face to face accent.

His argument, which I didn't read on the thread about disadvantages to DIR, is that in an ooa situation he wouldn't want a nervous or panicing diver on the end of a 7' hose but rather right up close where he could have a firm hold on his jacket.

Don't buy your self trouble and don't turn the rescuer into a victim come to mind.

If your close enough to grab the guy, he is close enough to grab you and bolt. Ofcourse, with the 7' hose, there is nothing stoping you from grabing him if you chose.

 

[The Kraken]

First let me state that I have never taken any DIR courses. I've read the extensive postings of those who are and those who aren't. So this is MY UNDERSTANDING of the logic of the long primary hose.

Keep in mind that the DIR philosophy was developed, primarily, by a group of divers doing cave exploration work in Florida. In a cave environment, in the case of an OOA situation, the divers possibly and probably cannot exit the environment in a face-to-face configuration, one has to lead and one has to follow. The long primary hose allows the OOA diver to follow the supporting diver from the environment.

I think one of the problems in the on-going DIR/Non-DIR flame war is that the diving environment is often overlooked in the argument and only the gear configuration is given consideration.

Even in recreational diving the long primary can be of great advantage in an OOA situation. I daresay that the panicked/OOA diver is not going to stray far from his/her air source. Suppose for a moment, that you are in the pilot house of some wreck at 60 FSW. The only way in and out was through a window opening. Your buddy is out of air. A longer primary hose will facilitate the exit of the environment much better than a normal length regulator hose.

Also, let us suppose that the OOA diver is not panicked. A longer primary hose will facilitate, even better, the traversing from point A to point B because the two of the divers are not in a face-to-face position and can propel themselves in more of a normal manner.

I've adopted a longer, 5' primary hose. I use the Atomic swivel on my primary and have found no constricting movements at all with this configuration.

I don't think DIR divers are saying that everyone should be DIR certified. Albeit, there are those who, like the rest of us, can be quite bull headed from time to time. I feel that they, for the most part, are sharing with the general diving community the configurations they've developed and the reasons behind their methods and philosophy.

I don't want to do caves and I never will. I do, however, embrace some of the methods and techniques that they have developed simply because they are logical and promote a greater margin of safety for my dive buddy and me.

 

[Potapko]

I use the same config for all of my diving, so I have the same response to emergencies. Look, grab, duck, donate - emergency over. I don't have to think about which rig I am in and where I cliped something off. Its always the same and there is something to be said for muscle memory.

I can certainly understand the logic behind using the same config for every dive every time. So, if I began to be involved with diving in an overhead environment, the long primary would be a no-brainer. That being said, without the overhead diving, why sacrifice ease of movement for the longer hose. I mean by this, again I am coming from a position of reading more than experience. In an OOA situation the dive is essentially over anyway. Share the secondary and surface, diver over man! :10:
So if we are going straight up, why is it better? The fact is that if the other diver is panicing, i don't want him/her on either a short or long hose of mine. At least until I get to complete the rescue level with lots of practice.

 

[Diver0001]

I use the same config for all of my diving, so I have the same response to emergencies. Look, grab, duck, donate - emergency over. I don't have to think about which rig I am in and where I cliped something off. Its always the same and there is something to be said for muscle memory.

I can certainly understand the logic behind using the same config for every dive every time. So, if I began to be involved with diving in an overhead environment, the long primary would be a no-brainer. That being said, without the overhead diving, why sacrifice ease of movement for the longer hose. I mean by this, again I am coming from a position of reading more than experience. In an OOA situation the dive is essentially over anyway. Share the secondary and surface, diver over man! :10:
So if we are going straight up, why is it better? The fact is that if the other diver is panicing, i don't want him/her on either a short or long hose of mine. At least until I get to complete the rescue level with lots of practice.

Well,

There are some situations where you may want to swim even if the the dive is "recreational" and without an overhead....

For example, say you are diving on a wreck. It may be unwise depending on conditions to make a free ascent from a wreck in current. Surface currents in many places can be strong and could carry you well away from the boat. In that kind of situation, the best course of action may be to abort along the upline and it would be nice to have to the room to do that without you and your buddy having to do the siamese-twin thing during the whole ascent. The ascent will go easier if you have a little room.

That's one example but if you think it through you can probably think of others. Diving near shipping lanes is another. You may want to abort along the bottom instead of surfacing dangerously close to a shipping lane (or near wind-surfers).

R..

 

[Mitchell]

Do any cert agencies use a seven foot hose for the open water training?

 

[Diver0001]

Do any cert agencies use a seven foot hose for the open water training?

IANTD and GUE do. PADI requires it for their tec-rec thingy IIRC. I don't know about others.

R..

 

[Xanthro]

I can think of plenty of instances where an open water rec diver would be better off with a longer hose.

What if your buddy gets caught in kelps, panics rolls and pulls his reg out which is now tangled. With a short hose you can give him air, but trying to cut him out will be tricky. With the long hose, you can donate air, cut him out, and find his own reg.

Any type of entanglement and loss of air situation would be better served with a long hose.

Any type of restricted environment would be better served with a long hose.

While the other diver may be able to be further away, that doesn't mean he has to be. Plus, I'd think a longer hose is more calming, less feeling that it is going to pull out of your mouth, or that if the donating diver turns will be pulled out.

Xanthro